Howard, It would be interesting to understand how you demonstrate your end product reliability. Regards, Graham Naisbitt [log in to unmask] www.concoat.co.uk Concoat Limited Alasan House, Albany Park CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100 Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227 Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Howard Watson Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 08:27 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Washing of no-clean You guys are right on target here. We have a major customer who is world leader in the heavy vehicle industry, and they were (and I think still are) very skeptical of our no-clean process (we also use Multicore paste). We have taken great strides to convince the customer that the no-clean process meets all industry specifications, and we have set up process controls to prove it. We hired a very high ranking consultant to set us on the right track with our customer. The consultant strongly advises against cleaning the "no-clean" flux. The alternative, to do the job correctly, would have been a $250,000 investment for a cleaning system. Howard Watson Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 02/20/01 09:09 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Lou Hart To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Washing of no-clean I was hoping someone would say what Brian has here, on behalf of manufacturers. If you want something more than conformance to our standard, 610 class 2 product, tell us you want it up front and be prepared to pay for it. This business is not a philanthropic enterprise. It may be advisable to give some free advice in this area, however, by telling the customer he may be wasting his money. Lou Hart -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:21 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Washing of no-clean Ioan Well, if they want it clean, they will have to pay for it, n'est-ce-pas? If they don't want to pay, the corollary is that they should put up with the minimal residues from a good low-solids, "no-clean" flux/paste. If you buy a car and want to enhance its appearance with "speed-stripes" or a spoiler, do you think your supplier will do it for free? Brian "Tempea, Ioan" wrote: > > Sorry for the missing details. > > The product is regular office equipment, so not a demanding one. The request > for cleanliness is purely aesthetical. > > By the way, no premium involved. They want it clean and that's it. > > Regards, > Ioan > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Ellis [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 2:31 AM > > To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Tempea, Ioan > > Subject: Re: [TN] Washing of no-clean > > > > Ioan > > > > Whoa! Be careful here. If your clients are wanting cleaning, there is a > > reason why they are willing to pay a premium. What is it? If it is > > purely for aesthetics, then no great deal. If it is for technical > > reasons, what degree of cleanliness is required? What is the end-use > > application? If it is critical, then you must do the job properly and it > > would be unlikely a bench-top system would give adequate results, at > > least without multiple stages and excellent process control. > > > > Please let us know more. > > > > Brian > > > > "Tempea, Ioan" wrote: > > > > > > Hi technos, > > > > > > I need your expertise again. > > > > > > We are on no-clean and newer clients ask us to clean the residue. I need > > to > > > know if any equipment exists to do this job, except for the big washers. > > I'm > > > thinking of a small (table top) tank, followed by some drying thing. > > > Then, is the simple dipping of the board enough to wash away the > > residue, or > > > some agitating action is needed? > > > > > > We are on X33 flux from Multicore and I think I can get from them the > > right > > > substance that would do the cleaning. However, if you happen to have > > > suggestions... > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Ioan > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text > > in > > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET > > Technet NOMAIL > > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > > E-mail Archives > > > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for > > additional > > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > > ext.5315 > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------