Julien, Isn't it great to own and operate the best damn cleaner in the industry. Sure, especially when it takes out your fid recognition material. Went down this path with HP, and others, for some time. At HP, we used sharpies to make the stencil fids black after complete epoxy removal - for about one cleaning cycle not withstanding the smear factor. I was thrilled with the cleaning. It was exceptional - no residual solder paste, no contamination of any kind, and no fiducials. But for some dental work, I also felt cleaner teeth after standing next to the machine in operation. The operators became unhappy. Management wanted immediate changes - good or bad, and I wanted a new job or stencil cleaner. You know the one. The kind that cleaned as well but without loosing the epoxy or fillings. I tried black oxiding and nitride treatments. They could have worked but the stencil guys didn't know how to apply the stuff as it only can be done in selective plating processes or those capable of ruining the stencil later in a separate process done only by outside suppliers. Tried just etching the depression through allowing the hole to be the fid. Still didn't work with the DEK's super green cameras. They just couldn't recognize the change. Maybe the person with the new material has it right. However, if the Smart Sonic can clean my fillings, it will probably clean the new stuff as well. Awesome, and how clean is clean? Earl Moon --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------