Hi Jim, One solution could be to place the local fiducials underneath the components. Another solution: don't use them. And do you really need a 0.150 (inch ?) keep out area ? Kind regards, Daan Terstegge SMT Centre Signaal Communications Unclassified mail Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net >>> Jim Kittel <[log in to unmask]> 10/05 3:25 pm >>> TechNetters, With so much emphasis on reducing circuit board feature sizes by use of micro BGA's, micro lead frames, micro vias, etc. the use of local fiducials becomes a real burden. For example, our typical fiducial is a 0.048 circle with a 0.150 keep out area. This keep out area is approaching the size of flash memories, micro BGA's, 0402 chips, etc. Has anyone figured out a way to work around this local fiducial problem? Is anyone grouping these parts into some kind of symmetric clusters? Any ideas? Jim Kittel ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ############################################################## ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ##############################################################