At 10 000 metres, even a Canada Goose would be frozen stiff :-) They use frozen (thawed) chickens for jet engines as well. They come out as chickenburgers, piping hot :-) Brian Bev Christian wrote: > Cara, > Just for your edification, the CSA Lab in Toronto has a chicken gun for > firing frozen chickens at airplane windscreens to mimic larger, unfrozen :) > birds flying into planes in the sky. They do testing for companies from all > over the world. Don't ask me about the physics of comparing a small frozen > chicken to, say, a big mushy, live Canada Goose! > > Visual inspection you should be able to do yourself. You may want to use > X-rays or pry/cut some parts off boards to look for solder balls under some > components. > > "I'm still not clear on if I can have my production boards tested in a lab > or if I need to use the IPC boards." > Well it depends on what you are trying to do. > 1) You could stick completed circuit packs into an Omegameter or equivalent > to get an idea (usually known as a process indicator) of the total, > composite amount of ionic/ionizable stuff on your boards. If you use a > water wash flux the telecommunication industry (and others) require a value > of 1.5 SOD or less. That industry takes this as a hard fail. If it is a > no-clean flux there are no hard and fast rules, as the values obtained will > be a result of weak organic acids (acceptable, up to an undetermined point) > and any halides, etc, that are there. There is no easy answer here. You > would have to run many boards and set your own green, yellow, red light > standards. Even pure WOA past a certain point are a problem if they are > going to gum up edge connectors and make for electrical opens. > 2) If you really want to know what that Omegameter number is due to, then > you are going to need ion chromatography. Celestica, Nortel Networks, EMPF > (Philadelphia) and CSL (the Terry and Doug Show, Kokomo) can do that. I am > sure there are others. They can send you an off-line note or others can > speak up for them. > 3) Well you could put your boards in a humidity chamber under load and wait > for failure and/or examine for dendritic growth, but this is sort of like > looking for a needle in a haystack. You're going to have to "know" where > the flux residues are going to congregate, where the most significant > voltage differences are, the spacings and how are you going to relate this > to the expected life of your product? Good luck on that! No, I highly > recommend that you go with industry standard coupons so your results can be > compared with stated pass/fail results. Also, the coupons can be relatively > easily examined, even the one where there are parts on the board. I cannot > remember the number for that board, but Doug can speak up, as he uses these > a lot. > > regards, > Bev Christian > Director of Electronics Manufacturing > XLTEK > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cara.Startek [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 9:31 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] IPC test labs > > Hello all (specifically SIRGuru), > > Thanks for the advice. I am actually looking to verify the performance and > gauge the impact of introducing a new flux to our wave solder system. > > I was indeed seeking labs that run certified IPC lab testing. I simply want > to determine if the fluxes work on our boards with no problems. This is not > really that simple, compare to hurling a dead chicken 56feet (16.8m) from a > hill top into a full moon...!?! :-) I have obtained Bellcore and IPC > qualification data from all of the fluxes that I am interested in. I have > narrowed my pool of fluxes through specifying VOC free, halide free > ,no-clean or water wash and low residue. > > The first phase of the testing is to determine if solder balls, bridging, > other defects are reduced using the new fluxes, compared to the current > flux. Any fluxes that do not perform well will be eliminated. The next > phase we plan on using IPC standard boards and/or our own boards. These > boards will be tested in a lab (specifically to determine if there is any > corrosion) and in our test department. I'm still not clear on if I can have > my production boards tested in a lab or if I need to use the IPC boards. > Again any fluxes that do not perform well in this phase will be eliminated. > The final phase will be to run the remaining fluxes for a least a week and > test and monitor any problems that arise. If anyone can offer any further > insight into this plan it is more than welcome. > > Crossing the boarder causes no problem, converting the Canadian dollar > does... :-) > > Your input is very helpful. > > Regards, > > Cara Startek > Process Engineering > http://www.leitch.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Pauls [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 5:31 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] IPC test labs > > In a message dated 06/01/2000 11:59:09 AM US Eastern Standard Time, > [log in to unmask] writes: > > > > > Background: I am currently conducting a flux evaluation for a > Wave Solder > > process. I am testing many fluxes and would like to send the > test boards > > out to an IPC certified lab to have SIR and corrosion tests > performed. > > Cara, IPC does not certify laboratories. They have a lab qual > document > (QL-653), but most commercial labs will be certified to either > ISO9002 or > AL2A protocols. Now, if you are talking about laboratories that are > "capable" of running the IPC tests, there are several good ones > around. I > know of a good one in Central Indiana (grin), but hesitate to > mention the > name for fear of setting of the guardians of non-commercialism. > > More importantly, what are the goals of your testing? What test > vehicle do > you want to use. If you are looking for the characteristics of the > flux, > then much of the data is probably already available from your > vendor. Ask > them for their J-STD-004 qualification data and that should have > SIR, copper > mirror, halide content, etc. Ask for the Bellcore Chapter 13 data > if you are > in the telecom business (as Bev Christian indicated). If you are > testing > multiple fluxes, then having them furnish the data may allow you to > do > comparisons without spending any cash. On the other hand, you can > rest > assured that the test samples for J-STD-004 qualifications are > processed > under optimal optimal conditions. > > If you are looking for how well you can use the flux, then you may > want to > use a different test vehicle or different test approaches. If you > want to > try it on actual hardware, then you should use some form of burn-in > testing, > rather than SIR testing. > > > > > Question #1: Is it possible to have these tests performed on > general > > boards, or do they have to be IPC standard boards? If they must > be IPC > > standard, where can I obtain the boards? > > Depends on the test goals and what you are trying to do. Different > boards > for different goals. Are you trying to convince a customer? What > do THEY > need to see? > > At the risk of setting off the flamethrowers, we carry most of the > standard > IPC boards in a variety of laminates and metal finishes. > > > > > Question #2: Are there any labs in Ontario (Canada) that perform > these > > tests? I have been looking on the net and all of the suitable > labs are in > > the US. > > Does crossing the border create a problem? > > Doug Pauls > Technical Director > CSL > > ############################################################## > TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV > 1.8c > ############################################################## > To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with > following text in > the body: > To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> > To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET > ############################################################## > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for > additional > information. > If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ############################################################## > > ############################################################## > TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c > ############################################################## > To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following > text in > the body: > To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> > To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET > ############################################################## > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional > information. > If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ############################################################## > > ############################################################## > TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c > ############################################################## > To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the body: > To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> > To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET > ############################################################## > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional > information. > If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ############################################################## ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. 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