Brian -- Attitude is not the way to effect change. As a designer I would disreguard anything stated the bitter nasty self rightous egotistical attitude you present in this posting. When you find design errors that are equipment driven you should communicate them back to the designer in a civilized way. Most designers will work with assembly to produce the highest quality design possible. Jeffrey A. McGlaughlin Sr. PCB Designer Battelle Memorial Institute Columbus Ohio [log in to unmask] P.S. -- I hsve just personaly gone through a six month search, concluding with an e-mail conversation with our pick-and-place vendor to get the minimum rail dimension. Something the operators should have been able to tell me but seem to have been to busy to answer my questions. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 9:40 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Design and Pick-&-Place Optics Mike How about introducing the notion of concurrent engineering? That way, everyone from the design engineer through to the final tester has his say how things should be made. Just make it clear to your bosses that, unless something is done to overcome your problem, you cannot be held responsible for faulty assembly due a design error that you have already pointed out to the designer, and keep the paperwork so that you cannot be blamed for having accepted it. Just point out to the designer and your boss the financial consequences if a batch is made disoriented due to the designer's unwillingness to do a bit of paperwork which would probably not cost more than just one faulty assembly. We, at the sharp end of production, must put our foot down firmly when designers do stupid things, as they often do. They are not the demi-gods they often think they are, able to rule the roost. I have been at both ends and I have seen many stupidities in my time. Brian Michael Forrester wrote: > We have designed a custom BGA device with a symmetrical ball design. The > substrate is a dark color and one corner of the device > is cut off to show orientation. My concern is that the optics in the > pick-&-place may not pick up the cut corner due to contrast problems. > In looking at a display of what the camera saw, looking at the part, the outside > perimeter of the part was barely visible if at all. I was using > a MyData My19 machine. > > If the tray holding the parts is loaded incorrectly I feel the machine will > incorrectly place the parts. My suggestion was to add a ball to make > the design non-symmetrical. I am getting a strong opposition from R&D to add > the extra ball because of the paperwork involved. We are still > in prototype stage of the design and want to correct any problems now before > production starts. This part needs to be placed using various > manufacturers machines. Are my concerns unfounded or should I be concerned and > fight to have the ball added? > > Best Regards, > > Mike Forrester > LeCroy Corp > > ############################################################## > TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c > ############################################################## > To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the body: > To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> > To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET > ############################################################## > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional > information. > If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ############################################################## ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ############################################################## ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ##############################################################