Hi Brian and All - Yeah, I hate to have such a crappy attitude!!! After all of these years wallowing around in this beloved industry, I guess you sort of start to take a set of mind. It's a whole lot similar to the rest of society - it comes down to about 95+% of your employees will work with you and comply with the rules most of the time, except for accidental "OSIF's". Then you have that small group of people, that, like two-year-olds, have to push it to the extremes at every opportunity. There are also a considerable group, who let themselves be driven by emotions, rather than take the time to assess the facts ("News Media Junkies"?). In the case of the "Peach Water", we learned, yesterday. that it did not contain the normal acid levels common to that fruit, yet was all of the C-H-O-N matrix. It appears that the bacterial stuff was a product of the young ladies "backwash" into the bottle (throat infection?), and not something from the producer, thankfully. She brought the stuff in because she liked the taste, and not from any specific desire to stretch or challenge the rules. You mentioned "nose picking" - boy have I got a good one on that. Another codger, curmudgeon, geezer, or whatever you and I should be considered, related the following: A lady filed a workmans comp claim for an infection in her nose and collected. She had apparently picked her nose, on the production line, with dirty (chemically contaminated) hands, and penetrated the skin, causing a sore, which developed an infection, and lead to blood poisoning. I've reached a point in this life where it is somewhat blissfull to simply turn off, or refuse to use, the damned cell phones, pagers, etc. They're convenient at times, but only on my terms!! Since we live in a heavily wooded area, this also helps to hear the native critters, owls, deer, woodpeckers, and particularly rattlesnakes (4 in the past year). Note that I hold this same "pig headed" attitude when in restaraunts, airports, etc. Have a fun day, all!! Yes, P.K. and Ingemar and SteveZeva invite your comments!! (yours in particular, Ingemar, because you do such a wonderful job of translating the words of the Aussie). Bye the bye, Steve, you need to watch it that the Okies don't make "Whiney Butt" a rodeo event and declare you a "World Champeen", awarding a belt buckle and all. I'm going to drop out of here and have a small bit of venison stew - Irish style!! Kelly -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum. <[log in to unmask]>; Kelly M. Schriver <[log in to unmask]> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2000 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [TN] Drinking Water >Kelly > >You are such a spoilsport! The mixture of citric and malic acid in that peach liquor is >simply delish and what if it does get spilt on the board, isn't the same acid mix used >in the Hughes flux? However, I'm so happy that you haven't banned crack sniffing and >heroine shooting as well. You don't want all the workers to miss the fun, do we? And I >must say it doesn't matter two hoots if people don't wash their hands before eating >because a) they get immune to the bugs on them and b) research shows that one's hands >goes to the mouth or to pick the nose on an average 4,3 times per hour. Interesting >thought: just stand by some traffic lights during rush hour. I'll guarantee you will >see drivers picking their nose in one out of 20 cars and they don't put condoms on >their fingers. While we're on this subject, a friend of mine was surprised to see me >wash my hands BEFORE having a piddle and not AFTER. When he asked me why, I said my >zi-zi (good French expression for the male member) was a helluva sight cleaner than my >fingers, as it had been protected by clean underclothes since my morning shower a >couple of hours earlier. Double-take. As for the Twinkie bar, do your fingers ever >touch it? As a chocolatophile, I usually hold such bars by the paper, not so much to >protect the food (?) from any germs, but to protect my fingers from a sticky chocolatey >mess, which would then force me to wash my hands after the event, rather than before. > >And you would also stop Walkmen, would you? This is an intrusion on the private liberty >of the workers to ruin their hearing over a ten-year period, by which time the 10 kHz >audiometric threshold level will have dropped by 10 dB. As for not hearing loudspeaker >announcements, does anyone ever listen to them? On Thursday, in Zurich airport, I >heard, with half an ear, an announcement which sounded roughly like, "woo ista eyis >chaffling oo arnaä peezconnact awissa eenphöömash disk." My wife, slightly more with it >(she used to be a speech therapist), said, "Wasn't that a call for you?". I said, >"Wasn't what?". "The loudspeaker announcement.". "What loudspeaker announcement?". "The >one that said 'Would Mister Ellis travelling to Larnaca please contact any Swissair >information desk'.". Anyway I did so and found that it was, indeed, me they were >looking for (an error on the boarding pass) but I was also told that it had been >announced four times! If you announce at 11 am over the factory loudspeakers that all >workers can have the rest of the day off on full pay, I'll bet you see less than half >of them immediately prepare to leave, Walkmen or not. People mentally switch off >loudspeakers. OK, I'll go along with workers being flattened by fork lift trucks except >that vehicle ways and pedestrian ways in the safe factory are kept apart, anyway >(nearly got flattened by the starboard outer landing gear wheel set of a 747-400 the >other day, though, as it was being moved from one assembly area to another at Boeing's >Renton plant: the damn thing was so bloody big it overflowed into the officially marked >walkways. But the biggest printed circuit I've seen was about 60 x 80 cm, so there's >perhaps less risk in an electronics assembly plant, where the worst thing you can do is >to pick up a soldering iron by the wrong end - don't forget to replace the bit, though: >carbonising skin can cause contamination. However, don't cool down the burn with Peach >Water.). Waving the soldering iron was probably to accelerate the cooling after a >temperature change: she was listening to the 10 o'clock News at the time you saw her, >reflecting on the latest Presidential escapades and wondering how you became an intern. > >Seriously, you are right but there are times I cannot resist putting my tongue in the >cheek and, yes, it does get me into trouble at times. However, I have an advantage over >Paul when I do so: I'm better understood! > >Brian > >"Kelly M. Schriver" wrote: > >> Hi Kenny & All - >> >> We had a discussion on this a couple of months ago, which you may want to >> dig out of TechNet archives. Realize that the rules prohibiting eating, >> drinking or use of tobacco in production areas evolved back in the 1950's, >> and perhaps before. The rules were implemented to protect both the product >> and the employees, and they are not necessarily peculiar to the electronic >> industry. >> >> There are several issues involved with "drinking water" on the production >> line: >> >> First, the purity of the water itself. I've had the experience of having a >> number of water samples analyzed over the years, ranging from tap water to >> the purchased "pure mountain spring" water. Have found quite a number of >> interesting organic and inorganic things that I wouldn't pour on an >> electronic product. This becomes even more important if you're running a >> "no clean" operation and trying to protect the product from being >> contaminated in your shops. >> >> Second, the risk of ingestion of contaminated fluids. A lot of folks don't >> have too great a sense of personal hygiene, in spite of having been schooled >> in the subject since they were toddlers. It's tough enough to get them to >> "Wash Hands Before Eating" that mid-morning break Twinkie, or whatever. >> I've seen some of those bottles get pretty grimy, including the mouthpiece. >> Have also seen folks snap the drinking cap open with a grimy hand, then >> stick it in their mouth. Drinking fountains in or near the area are a whole >> lot better solution - protects the people and the product. >> >> Third, things like this have a habit of creeping into other things. Two >> weeks ago, I was working an assignment for one of our small local shops that >> allows bottled drinking water to be consumed on line. I happened to notice >> an oddly colored bottle of water and asked the young lady who was drinking >> from it just exactly what it was. She proudly showed me the label which >> read, "Peach Water". Turns out this stuff had a fair load of sugar, >> flavoring and some, as yet unidentified, bacterialogical stuff. >> >> While I'm strongly in favor of realistic work rules, I continually remind >> myself that the rules also have to protect the primary goals of running a >> factory: efficient production; reliable output; and profitability. The >> rules also have to protect the health and safety of its employees. >> >> In another post, someone raised the question of people with a Walkman >> plugged in both ears, oblivious to their surroundings. Here's my nickles >> worth on that item: Ever see one of these folks just continue to sit there >> when the Plant PA system blares out a warning for a tornado, fire or gives >> other significant information? Ever stop to consider how much of their >> concentration is on the product, vs. how much is on the entertainment? Ever >> seen one of these folks obviously keeping time to the music beat with the >> movements of their soldering iron tip? My vote has to be "No" on the >> Walkman, as well. >> >> Regards - Kelly >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kenny Bloomquist <[log in to unmask]> >> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> >> Date: Friday, February 25, 2000 9:42 AM >> Subject: [TN] Drinking Water >> >> >As long as Steve has brought up the touchy subject of safety glasses I >> >thought I'd throw in the touchy question of drinking water on the line. >> > >> >We work to J-STD-001 and flow that down to our subcontractors. We have a >> >subcontractor that has always allowed their operators to have a jug of >> >water at their bench. The containers they use are ESD safe and have a straw >> >out the top so they don't have to touch the top of the container where they >> >drink (unlike a sports bottle with a pop up top) . >> > >> >Two questions, what is the problem with this approach and when the spec >> >refers to "drinking" does it mean water and why? (woops I guess that's >> >three questions) >> > >> >Thanks, >> > >> >Ken Bloomquist >> >Sr. Principal Process Engineer >> >PRIMEX Aerospace Company >> >P.O. Box 97009 >> >Redmond, WA 98073-9709 >> >http://www.primextech.com >> > >> >Ph: 425-885-5000 >> >FAX: 425-882-5786 >> >[log in to unmask] >> > >> >Northcon/2000, Chairman of the Board >> >http://www.northcon.org >> > >> >Electronics Manufacturers Association (EMA), President >> >http://www.ema-wa.org >> > >> >############################################################## >> >TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c >> >############################################################## >> >To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following >> text in >> >the body: >> >To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> >> >To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET >> >############################################################## >> >Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for >> additional >> >information. >> >If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >> >847-509-9700 ext.5315 >> >############################################################## >> >> ############################################################## >> TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c >> ############################################################## >> To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >> the body: >> To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> >> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET >> ############################################################## >> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional >> information. >> If you need assistance - contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >> 847-509-9700 ext.5315 >> ############################################################## > ############################################################## TechNet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8c ############################################################## To subscribe/unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the body: To subscribe: SUBSCRIBE TECHNET <your full name> To unsubscribe: SIGNOFF TECHNET ############################################################## Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information. 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