Neil Maloney said:
> What used? We bought that machine BRAND-NEW in December,1995! Six
months
>after we purchased it, Mydata (the people we bought it from) told us
that
>the $120,000.00 machine we just bought needed a $30,000.00 upgrade.
It
>turned out that we bought the LAST machine made of that model. They
didn't
>tell us that when we bought it. They just smiled and took our check.
> Since then, service from the factory has been poor and overpriced.
There
>is no service tech in my area, and if I should need one, he has to be
"flown
>in from Boston." (At our expense!) As an added plus, very few of their
techs
>are familiar with the operating system on a machine that is a little
over
>four years old and has a little over 5,000 hours on it. The last tech
they
>sent me (at $1,600.00) was clueless as to our Mydata operating
system.
> Three years ago, I had a $.05 retaining washer go bad in the
Mydata's
>vacuum pump, for which Mydata could only sell me a $1055.00 vacuum
pump.
>After numerous phone calls and e-mails over a period of two
months(Finally I
>had to contact Brian Duffy, Mydata's corporate President) they sent me
the
>wrong washer for free. In the meantime, the $.05 washer I bought at
the
>local hardware store has fit the bill just fine.
> I firmly believe that I should be able to receive better service
from
>outside Mydata. There are many people that feel the same way. I just
want to
>work together with them and maybe do it a better way.
> If you want to defend Mydata (or anybody else, for that matter)
perhaps
>you should find out a little more about how the end-users have to deal
with
>the machines and the service departments.
> The only chance I took was from taking the word of an OEM as
"gospel".
I hear you, Neil.
There is a tendency for equipment manufacturers to treat machines more
than a few years old as though they were antiques. This is not unique
to Mydata.
I believe this is because most of the field service people are
dedicated to solving issues with the newer in-warranty equipment.
Problems with older equipment are relegated to certain technicians who
are "experts" on the older machines, and sometimes the tendency is for
the technicians to want to deal only with the newer and more exotic
equipment. Besides, it is annoying to have to troubleshoot obscure
"wear-out" problems.
For end users, the reaction is a bit tiresome. We kept Siemens machines
nearly ten years old in operation here, but dealing with the factory
personnel was sometimes less than pleasant.
As you said, Neil, the spares costs can be absurd. We had a +5, +/- 12
V power supply on the vision system go bad, and Siemens' only answer
was to sell me the complete VMEbus card cage, p/s, and backplane
assembly for some outrageous five digit figure, as they did not stock
the necessary closed frame power supply. I have a stock response to
this over the phone. When I get the quote, I tell them that I will need
to call the local police first, could they please hold. They say,
"Police? What do you mean?", whereupon I tell them
that rape is illegal in the State of Texas, and I need to report the
crime immediately.
In the case above, we figured out what the power supply rating was, cut
the connecting cables off, deduced what wires were being used for
voltage sensing, and simply put in a big honking p/s out of some
boatanchor computer laying around the shop. Cost was essentially
nothing but a few man-hours of effort from me and a couple of our
technicians.
There have been numerous times where I have had to get capital approval
for some stepper motor, power supply, or servo-amp card for a piece of
automation. I believe it is fairly standard practice to mark up these
items 10X by the OEM. Sometimes the crafty user will be able to deduce
what Omron temp controller, Escap motor, or Festo air cylinder is
needed, and save 90% of the cost. Catalogs from some of these
industrial controls components can be valuable references.
I also note that the cost of importing some fairly common items into
the US can get absurd. I once had a Japanese wave soldering machine
with a rubberized belt transfer conveyor. The OEM quoted a ridiculous
price for a replacement, so I took the Thomas Register, called around,
and found a Chicago company who would make a custom rubberized fabric
belt, ESD safe, my dimensions - red, green, or black. Their minimum
order was like $400, and for that they would give me 3 belts in 3 wks.
I called the OEM solder machine parts dept. in California back and
offered to sell them one for 1/4 the price they offered me, which would
cover the cost of all 3 I ordered.
My suggestion to any new equipment buyer:
Ask to see a listing of the selling prices on all their spares for the
new machine being considered. Make sure you check some things with low
MTBF like the drive motors, sensors, belts, board level spares. Pay
special attention to any wear-out items. Test whether makes you gag
violently turn red-faced upon cursory review. Count to 10, this will be
your best chance to complain effectively. I have usually gotten some
provision to allow me to buy a list of spares at a big discount from
their list within one year of the equipment purchase. One reason for
doing it this way is the doubt that one can accurately predict the
parts necessary to keep on hand with less than a year's experience.
My suggestion to OEM's:
Don't treat the customer like a hermit calling for '72 Fiat parts when
they wish to keep your five year old placement machine going. We
wouldn't be needing spare parts if the machine was new. Most of us also
know that stepper motors don't cost $2,500. We know you have customers
ready and waiting to pay list price for the newest equipment you offer,
and are getting ready to display an even faster and more dazzling
machine at NEPCON, but we will tell all our buddies how you treated us
if you don't play nice. This is not the best time to suggest replacing
the old beater with a new one.
General comments about the cost of spares:
I understand that it is necessary to add markup to slow moving stock.
That's OK. There is great value in providing the on-hand spares, so
that the customer does not need to maintain his own stock. This value
is considerably diluted if when one calls to order, he is told it must
come from overseas...thus adding insult to the affront of being quoted
a highly inflated price.
My opinions, as usual, to be considered at face value. Void where
taxed, prohibited, or subject to authoritative rebuke.
cheers,
Jerry Cupples
Interphase Corporation
Dallas, TX USA
http://www.iphase.com
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