Please delete my address in your future mailing list immediately.
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 1:00 PM
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
Subject: TechNet Digest - 26 Jul 1999 (#1999-48)
There are 9 messages totalling 647 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. No clean flux residue (3)
2. IPC 610 and others in Japanese
3. graphic converter (2)
4. NI/AU UNDER BETWEEN COPPER
5. Selective Wave Solder Pallet Problems (2)
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:45:16 +1000
From: Paul Klasek <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: No clean flux residue
Can be done as you said Hans ; but the cost of it is very much in custom
field .
Ivan, I have recently a parallel problem :
where we have a hard rosin no clean flux ;
(yes the test probes to test pads , not solder pads) ;
and do validate because of parallel (stencil) process another no clean with
soft rosin (probe pins through)
My problem is it's so sticky in cool state I worry about SIR within the 3
year warranty on dust and moisture build ups in different working
environments , and therefore trying to keep the hard rosin in place .
Just a thing to consider
Paul Klasek
http://www.resmed.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Hinners Hans CIV WRALC/LYPME [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 July 1999 6:32
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] No clean flux residue
Hi Ivan and All,
As you have discovered there really isn't a 'no clean' flux (at least with
'special' cases, yours - Probe; mine - Conformal Coating). Somebody correct
me if I'm wrong but you have a couple of choices - clean the probes, clean
the boards, or change the equipment/process (i.e.. change the way you test
and/or solder $$$).
The question I have for the group: Would soldering in an inert environment
remove the need for flux all together? I would swear I have seen that
mentioned somewhere recently (where o where? - was it PC FAB or maybe
Precision Cleaning).
Hans
Air Force Material Command - We keep them flying!
~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners WR-ALC/LYPME Bldg. 640
Materials Engineer 380 Second Street,
Suite 104
Manufacturing Eng. Sec. Robins AFB GA 31098-1638
912-926-1970 (Voice) 468 - 1970 (DSN) 912-926-7974 (Fax)
[log in to unmask]
> Hello Technetters:
> Being new to the list, I do not know if this issue has been discussed in
> the
> past, so here goes. What can be done to minimize/eliminate the residue
> left by
> the no clean fluxes on the PCB's? We currently have a big issue with
> residue not
> allowing our test pin probes to make contact. We have implemented cleaning
> the
> probes on a regular basis, but I want to eliminate the issue altogether.
> If this
> has been discussed, please point me in the right direction (archived
> responses).
> If not, I would really appreciate your help.
> Ivan Barrios
> Process Engineer
> Conexant Systems
> El Paso, TX,
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:05:17 +0900
From: "Fujikura Ltd." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC 610 and others in Japanese
My comment is not the direct answer for your questions.
However, watching some work of Japanese organization may help you to
obtain Japanese documents that is related to that of IPC's.
FPC committess in JPCA(Japan Printed Circuit Association) is now working
to create the guide for Acceptability of Electronic Assemblies, simular
to IPC-A-610, focused on SMT for Flexible PWB.
This work will be another Joint Standatd between IPC and JPCA in near
future, like we already have IPC/JPCA-6202 and IPC/JPCA-4104.
The original of these standards are "made in Japan" , of course written
in Japanese and still available to get these Japanese version by
contacting JPCA, TEL+81-3-5310-2020 or FAX+81-3-5310-2021.
For Japanese translation of IPC-TM-650, has been published by
GOUSEIJYUSI KOUGYOU KYOUKAI, TEL+81-3-3580-0881 or FAX+81-3-3580-0832
this is a good guide for Japanese because it contains all the important
test method concerning PWBs.
Hope this helps to resolve your questions.
Regards,
Toru Koizumi
Fujikura LTD.
[log in to unmask]
Printed Circuit Board Division
TEL+81-5606-1190 FAX+81-5606-1567
>Hi Technetters,
>Background:
>My company is new to IPC here in the states and Japan
> They (TRMI ) originated in Japan around 1948
> I believe they have about 10 Locations around the world.
> So you can understand our need for the standards to be in
> Japanese.
>Question.
> 1) Will IPC-A-610 or any of the standards be in Japanese any time
> soon.
> 2) Will any of the new videos be in Japanese
> 3) Has any one already translated from English to Japanese
> Can I receive a copy?
----
Fujikura Ltd. [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:59:50 -0400
From: Steve Underwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: graphic converter
Matthias,
It looks like the medium of choice is HPGL. Ultimately, I'm trying to
use a commercial scanner to scan PCB films. My scanner outputs data in
graphic formats but not HPGL. In order to use a commercial scanner, I'm
going to have to output in jpeg, convert to HPGL, and then input the HPGL
into a CAM system which accepts HPGL.
Thank you for your input.
Steve.
On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:32:13 +0200 Matthias Mansfeld
<[log in to unmask]> writes:
>On 21 Jul 99 at 17:31, Steve Underwood wrote:
>
>> Hello Technetters,
>>
>> Does anyone know of a JPG, TIF, or BMP to Gerber conversion?
>
>Perhaps you can check whether Corel Draw, Micrografx Designer or some
>other vector graphic software can import a pixel graphic like JPG,
>BMP and convert it to vectors and polygones (my old Corel Draw 3.0
>could do it, but mostly ugly results - did never try it with a "real
>life" project). Then just export/print to file in HPGL. The next step
>(HPGL to Gerber) should be easy for any CAM software.
>
>HTH
>Regards
>Matthias
>-----------------------------------------------
>Matthias Mansfeld Elektronik
>* Printed Circuit Board Design and Assembly
>Am Langhoelzl 11, D-85540 Haar, GERMANY
>Phone: +49-89-4620 0937, Fax: +49-89-4620 0938
>E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
>Internet: http://www.mansfeld-elektronik.de
>
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>additional
>information.
>If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at
>[log in to unmask] or
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:03:01 -0400
From: Steve Underwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: graphic converter
Peter,
Thanks, but we already have Orbotech and Valor. I'm fairly confident
that we will not be switching CAM systems in the near future. Do you
have a conversion application available?
Steve.
On Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:54:54 +0100 Peter Darvas <[log in to unmask]>
writes:
>Our Planmaster CAM software can take TIF files as input and perform
>the
>usual CAM functions and output in a variety of formats including
>Gerber.
>
>Do you have a sample file ?
>
>Peter Darvas
>Tibor Darvas
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Matthias Mansfeld
>Sent: Sunday, July 25, 1999 5:32 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] graphic converter
>
>
>On 21 Jul 99 at 17:31, Steve Underwood wrote:
>
>> Hello Technetters,
>>
>> Does anyone know of a JPG, TIF, or BMP to Gerber conversion?
>
>Perhaps you can check whether Corel Draw, Micrografx Designer or some
>other vector graphic software can import a pixel graphic like JPG,
>BMP and convert it to vectors and polygones (my old Corel Draw 3.0
>could do it, but mostly ugly results - did never try it with a "real
>life" project). Then just export/print to file in HPGL. The next step
>(HPGL to Gerber) should be easy for any CAM software.
>
>HTH
>Regards
>Matthias
>-----------------------------------------------
>Matthias Mansfeld Elektronik
>* Printed Circuit Board Design and Assembly
>Am Langhoelzl 11, D-85540 Haar, GERMANY
>Phone: +49-89-4620 0937, Fax: +49-89-4620 0938
>E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
>Internet: http://www.mansfeld-elektronik.de
>
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>following
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>[log in to unmask] or
>847-509-9700 ext.5365
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>additional
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>If you need assistance - contact Gayatri Sardeshpande at
>[log in to unmask] or
>847-509-9700 ext.5365
>##############################################################
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:19:52 -0500
From: Don Vischulis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: NI/AU UNDER BETWEEN COPPER
Susan:
Don't have an answer, but someone out there probably does. Is this a high
frequency/controlled impedance application? If so will the metallic interface have an
effect on the characteristic impedance or cause reflections?
Don Vischulis
[log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> I just looked at a product where the manufacturer has managed to
> overplate nickel/gold with copper. This occurs on the surface conductors
> and also in holes.
>
> I have looked in the design and board documents, but cannot find anything
> that addresses the reliability of such a condition. I know putting a
> "meltable"
> material between layers of copper can wreak havoc, but what about
> ni/au?
>
> Susan Mansilla
> Robisan Lab
>
Snip_________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:36:29 -0400
From: Ryan Jennens <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Selective Wave Solder Pallet Problems
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BED7B7.4DC621D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hey all-
We use selective wave solder pallets extensively to solder through-hole
leads, as almost all our boards are mixed tech. A couple types boards
consistently show a single short on the trailing edge of large through-hole
connectors. One board always shorts on the trailing pins of a PGA socket,
while the other always shorts on the trailing edge of a 40-pin dual-row
female header. No amount of tweaking the wave machine settings affects the
short. My theory is this: When the solder leaves the larger pallet
openings, it has nothing to "snap" to. Therefore, it "snaps" to the last
couple of pins it leaves. I have made sure that the solder flows off the
back of the wave at the same speed as the conveyer. Has anybody else seen,
or heard, of this problem with selective solder pallets? The advantages of
reflowing bottom-side components make wave soldering the whole bottom-side
unfeasible. Speaking with the pallet house has left us with grooved pallet
bottoms and chamfered openings; but the problem remains. Is there a way to
alter the selective wave solder pallet openings to avoid these "snap-back"
shorts?
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BED7B7.4DC621D0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D774512402-27071999>Hey=20
all-</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D774512402-27071999></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D774512402-27071999> =20
We use selective wave solder pallets extensively to solder through-hole =
leads,=20
as almost all our boards are mixed tech. A couple types boards=20
consistently show a single short on the trailing edge of large =
through-hole=20
connectors. One board always shorts on the trailing pins of a PGA =
socket,=20
while the other always shorts on the trailing edge of a =
40-pin dual-row=20
female header. No amount of tweaking the wave machine settings =
affects the=20
short. My theory is this: When the solder leaves the larger =
pallet=20
openings, it has nothing to "snap" to. Therefore, it "snaps" to =
the last=20
couple of pins it leaves. I have made sure that the solder flows =
off the=20
back of the wave at the same speed as the conveyer. Has anybody =
else seen,=20
or heard, of this problem with selective solder pallets? The =
advantages of=20
reflowing bottom-side components make wave soldering the whole=20
bottom-side unfeasible. Speaking with the pallet house has =
left us=20
with grooved pallet bottoms and chamfered openings; but the problem=20
remains. Is there a way to alter the selective wave solder pallet =
openings=20
to avoid these "snap-back" shorts?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BED7B7.4DC621D0--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:04:55 EDT
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Selective Wave Solder Pallet Problems
In a message dated 7/26/99 9:35:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> Hey all-
>
> We use selective wave solder pallets extensively to solder through-hole
> leads, as almost all our boards are mixed tech. A couple types boards
> consistently show a single short on the trailing edge of large through-hole
> connectors. One board always shorts on the trailing pins of a PGA socket,
> while the other always shorts on the trailing edge of a 40-pin dual-row
> female header. No amount of tweaking the wave machine settings affects the
> short. My theory is this: When the solder leaves the larger pallet
> openings, it has nothing to "snap" to. Therefore, it "snaps" to the last
> couple of pins it leaves. I have made sure that the solder flows off the
> back of the wave at the same speed as the conveyer. Has anybody else seen,
> or heard, of this problem with selective solder pallets? The advantages of
> reflowing bottom-side components make wave soldering the whole bottom-side
> unfeasible. Speaking with the pallet house has left us with grooved pallet
> bottoms and chamfered openings; but the problem remains. Is there a way to
> alter the selective wave solder pallet openings to avoid these "snap-back"
> shorts?
>
Hi ya Ryan!
Yeah, I've seen this before, and my my solution is a bit of a pain in the
butt, but if you go out and get some copper tape (you can get it at a
electronics store like Fry's, or maybe even radio shack carries it...) just
put a little strip at the trailing edge of the openings that you're having
problems with, it'll provide another surface for the solder to wet to besides
the last pins of the connectors or whatnot that's getting the bridges. You
may have to experiment with the positioning, and the amount of surface area
where you'll put these, but it'll work once you get it down. Make sure your
pallet is really clean when you put the tape down.You may have to replace
them now and again because the adhesive that's normally on these types of
tapes ain't made to go thru wave solder temperatures, but they'll hold for a
while...if you're lucky, they'll stay stuck to the pallet for a decent amount
of time before you need to replace the tape. Like I said, it IS a pain...but
you should be able to keep those pesky bridges from occuring once you get the
position of the tape down...
(HEY! WAVE SOLDER PALLET GUYS! THIS IS A PROBLEM! COME UP WITH SOMETHING SO
WE DON'T HAFTA USE THIS TAPE DEAL!)
-Steve Gregory-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:35:43 +0530
From: Sunil Gupta <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: No clean flux residue
Ivan,
We need to use low solids fluxes of the type 1.8 or 2% solid content. There
are some self cleaning probes also available (I saw some ad long time
back). If you are using the spray fluxer than you may reduce the amount of
flux applied to the board.
regards
Sunil Gupta
Manager - Process Engineering
Ivan Barrios <[log in to unmask]> on 27-07-99 00:39:56
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond
to [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Sunil Gupta/TTL)
Subject: [TN] No clean flux residue
Hello Technetters:
Being new to the list, I do not know if this issue has been discussed in
the
past, so here goes. What can be done to minimize/eliminate the residue left
by
the no clean fluxes on the PCB's? We currently have a big issue with
residue not
allowing our test pin probes to make contact. We have implemented cleaning
the
probes on a regular basis, but I want to eliminate the issue altogether. If
this
has been discussed, please point me in the right direction (archived
responses).
If not, I would really appreciate your help.
Ivan Barrios
Process Engineer
Conexant Systems
El Paso, TX,
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##############################################################
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:38:08 +0530
From: Sunil Gupta <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: No clean flux residue
ERSA has introduced Ultrasonic wave soldering machine which doesnot require
flux for soldering.
Multicore has introduced a flux on which conformal coating can be done
without cleaning the boards.
regards
Sunil Gupta
"Hinners Hans CIV WRALC/LYPME" <[log in to unmask]> on 27-07-99
02:01:46
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond
to "Hinners Hans CIV WRALC/LYPME" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Sunil Gupta/TTL)
Subject: Re: [TN] No clean flux residue
Hi Ivan and All,
As you have discovered there really isn't a 'no clean' flux (at least with
'special' cases, yours - Probe; mine - Conformal Coating). Somebody
correct
me if I'm wrong but you have a couple of choices - clean the probes, clean
the boards, or change the equipment/process (i.e.. change the way you test
and/or solder $$$).
The question I have for the group: Would soldering in an inert environment
remove the need for flux all together? I would swear I have seen that
mentioned somewhere recently (where o where? - was it PC FAB or maybe
Precision Cleaning).
Hans
Air Force Material Command - We keep them flying!
~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners WR-ALC/LYPME Bldg. 640
Materials Engineer 380 Second Street,
Suite 104
Manufacturing Eng. Sec. Robins AFB GA 31098-1638
912-926-1970 (Voice) 468 - 1970 (DSN) 912-926-7974 (Fax)
[log in to unmask]
> Hello Technetters:
> Being new to the list, I do not know if this issue has been discussed in
> the
> past, so here goes. What can be done to minimize/eliminate the residue
> left by
> the no clean fluxes on the PCB's? We currently have a big issue with
> residue not
> allowing our test pin probes to make contact. We have implemented
cleaning
> the
> probes on a regular basis, but I want to eliminate the issue altogether.
> If this
> has been discussed, please point me in the right direction (archived
> responses).
> If not, I would really appreciate your help.
> Ivan Barrios
> Process Engineer
> Conexant Systems
> El Paso, TX,
>
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------------------------------
End of TechNet Digest - 26 Jul 1999 (#1999-48)
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