Steve!

 Between $70 and $90 -- Bargain of the year!

 Let's look at some of these some operations:

 37 pin lifts - Hmmm. Replacement of the part when the lead snaps off? (Even the
 best will have it happen sometimes)  Are you wiring to this lifted lead? If
 this is true, you are topside, and routing the wires around, not straight
 leading them.  3 minutes per is definitely closer. 5 min if you go lifted to
 lifted with routing and tacking

 52 part adds - Mounting method?  Glue?  Solder to other component leads?  In
 the PCB? Any lead prep required?

 85 jumper wires - Holy Monte Crisco! That's not an ECO, that's cabling!  I am
 assuming you are doing the same wiring on each board as this is an ECO.  How's
 your documentation? VERY clear? How's the PCB markings? Will your people fumble
 around awhile looking for locations and/or counting pins?


 Well.. lets add up:

 If we lame-brain and assume a minute per operation, you total out to 174
 minutes (lets see.. divide by 60...) or let's call it 3 hours.  3 Hours * $30
 per = $90!


 ** REAL LIFE BREAK ***


 O.K.  Now having made a fool out of ourselves and lost money let's look at
 real life.

 First, I'd like to have one of my rework people actually do one board to see
 the amount of time it took.  I then would take that time and multiply it by
 90% (the first one is always the slowest).  (By the way: this type of ECO work
 usually has better success if you can break it up into a series of operations)
 Then I'd add back some time for minor disasters (like the lead breakage
 mentioned above).

 Second: You need to walk through this to get realistic.

 Incoming Prep Time: Receive, unpack, get to work area.
 Board Prep Time: Component removal, lift leads
 Component Prep Time: Find the components, Lead forming, pre-tinning
 .
 .
 Etc.

 I'm running out of time here, but I think you get the drift.  In my evil old
 days, I ran a Prototyping area at an OEM shop.  We never quoted the actual cost
 of what our design engineers would dream up, but did a number of projects that
 were fairly equivalent (more wires, less components).  We would crank out 2
 boards per person per week with some awesome rework people.

 Hmmm... 20 hours * $30 per = $600 !!

 (...and the customer runs laughing from the room!)

 Steve: I'd look at this REAL HARD.  Now that I'm in the contract manufacturing
 world, I suspect that when you get through looking at this realistically,
 you'll find that either you aren't getting paid enough or that your quote is
 way outta line with what your customer expects to pay.

 ='s lose-lose situation.

 Good luck.  Post what you come up with, I'd love to hear!!


     -------------------------------------------------------------
     Rob Green - Supervisor, Test Engineering
     Hadco Corp - Value Added Manufacturing


 ps.  Don't forget to ask the test question: does your customer need to put
 this back on a bed-of-nails fixture?  This has a big impact on your wire
 routing!




______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: [TN] Jumper wires, haywires, oops wires, etc....
Author:  "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]> at SMTPLink-Hadco
Date:    2/16/99 3:36 PM


Hello Everybody!

     The only thing I don't like about 3-day weekends, is that ya' have to
come back to work. When ya' do, you feel like you're behind because of the
extra day off, but I guess that's normal. Had a nice weekend, sat home and
watched all the Daytona stuff...wanted my man DALE "The Intimidator" to win,
but second ain't too bad I guess. I guess he didn't intimidate Jeff Gordon
enough...that kid is awesome! I do believe he'll be one to break and set all
the NASCAR records before he's through. What he's done so far at age 27 is
amazing!

     Anyways, let's switch from NASCAR to jumper wires..(see how I smoothly
transitioned from one topic to another? hehehe...) Tried to do an archive
search on this just a bit ago, but the server ain't talking to me this morning
for some reason...(bad breath?)

    What I'd like to ask though, is how do ya'll quote jumpers? I've sat down
and tried to work things out in my head of how long it takes, but when it
comes time for the rubber to meet the road so to speak, (notice how I
continued with my Daytona 500 theme? Slick huh? hehehe..) I'm always off.
Things that I think are simple and shouldn't take much work, take longer than
I thought, or vice versa, things that I think will take some time the girls
will do in a snap.

     I really do put some thought into this, and I have timed what it takes to
do lets say; a simple 2", point to point wire with no crazy turns or anything.
What I use for figures are; 1) 15-seconds to cut and strip both ends of the
wire, 2) 15-20 seconds to solder each end, 3) Another 15-30 seconds to clean
and secure the wire down to the PCB. If there's any weird routing of the wire
needed (like from top to bottom, or a bunch of turns the wire needs to make)
I'll add another minute or two to each jumper to account for the added time
needed to route and secure the wire. Does this seem reasonable to ya'll?

     The reason I'm asking is that I'm quoting a rework only job (which I've
not done much of) and I don't know if I'm close on this one. This job is for
around 200 boards and will tie-up some of my best rework people while we do
this job, I just wanna be sure that we're getting what we should be getting
for this.

     The board has 37-pin lifts, 52 part adds (caps and resistors), and 85
jumper wires. The jumpers aren't anything complicated and most of them are to
and from 50-mil stuff...there's just a lot of them.

     I'm figuring that I'll be somewhere between $70 and $90...just gotta'
look at all the little details now. Does that sound like it'll fly from your
experiences?

Thanks ya'll!

-Steve "I'm up to my ears in wires" Gregory-

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