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June 1998

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From:
Craig Smith <[log in to unmask]>
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Date:
Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:16:47 -0400
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What type of unit cost is there with purchased nitrogen?  Anyone using or have experience with  a
nitrogen generator?  I've been told the purity of the nitrogen from generation is not that good.

Craig Smith
Paradyne Corp.

Ed Holton wrote:

> I have found that the nitrogen helps open up the process window of the wave
> solder process, particularly with the use of no-clean flux.  Reference my
> previous reply to another message concerning my feelings and the benfits of
> nitrogen.  Another reply stated that if solderability of the boards and
> components was good, and you used the proper flux, that nitrogen was not
> needed, in theory I agree, and at my facility the shelf life of my
> components and boards is very short.  In theory, if everything is
> solderable, you do not need flux.  But this is the real world, and we need
> to be able to accomodate that reel of components that sat somewhere for 6
> months, and may have solderability problems.  Plus, when you are attempting
> to reach six sigma levels of quality (I know, not possible with the wave
> operation, but I am at 4 sigma now!), you want to take advantage of
> everything you can.  What is the cost of quality?  Thus, I continue to use
> nitrogen to enhance my process.  Anyway, the nitrogen helps with the
> soldering, changing the way solder flows, etc.  What it did, was get rid of
> the random defects, so any wave solder defects that occured were easily
> identifiable as design defects.  Nitrogen also fixed some solder defects
> that occured due to questionable pad designs.
>
> How much solder will you save with nitrogen?  Cannot give a hard and fast
> answer, depends on amount of time in production and a few other factors.
> When I did my cost analysis,  I was conservative.  I knew how much solder
> we bought per year and how much dross we created per year.  I decided the
> difference was how much solder was used in production (stayed on the
> board).  I made a one to one correlation then between the dross and
> remaining solder purchesed.  Reduce the dross and we would have to buy less
> solder.  Presently, we were de-drossing once per day.  I  decided that with
> the nitrogen system, the solder pot would have to be de-drossed once per
> week.  I extrapolated and decided that one days worth of dross with my
> existing machine would equal one weeks worth of dross with my nitrogen
> machine.  This was backed up by info from SEHO, Electrovert, and existing
> users.  Eliminate 4/5 of the dross and you eliminate 4/5 of the solder
> purchased that generated the dross.  The math can be done from there.
> Don't forget you are now buying less solder, have less dross to
> reclaim(hazardous waste) and to include the cost savings due to reduced
> maintenance time.  Before I am attacked by others for my assumptions, I had
> very little data to work with, luckily I was conservative in my numbers and
> the actual cost savings were greater than expected.  I too would be
> interested in what others have found.  While it is not a direct
> correlation, I found that the savings due to dross reduction pay for the
> nitrogen used in the system.  Thus your cost savings is due to improved
> quality, reduced maint. time, and a more robust process.
>
> Consumption of nitrogen can be determined by the machine.  Each vendor will
> tell you how much N2 the system will use, measured in cubic feet per minute
> (or its metric equivalent)
>
> Other cost savings have been addressed in other responses.  if you have any
> questions, please call
>
> Ed Holton
> Hella Electronics
> 734-414-0944
>
> [log in to unmask] on 06/25/98 04:04:04 PM
>
> Please respond to [log in to unmask]; Please respond to [log in to unmask]
>
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> cc:    (bcc: Ed Holton/Hella North America Inc.)
> Subject:  Re: [TN] Nitrogen in the wavesolderingproces
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a few questions like to get the answer from the expertises:
>
> 1. Nitrogen being used on the wave process, what kind of process
> improvement do we achieve? I heard people said that they have better
> joint, better reflow.....
> 2. If it helps to reduce drossing of solder, how much solder do we save
> monthly? How much dross produce/reduce each month? (Use % for
> calculation).
> 3. How much nitrogen consumption in a month? (Let's say the machine runs
> 2 shifts in 22 days/month).
>
> How can I measure/justify of using nitrogen in the process in terms of
> quality and savings?
> Your answer would be a great help for me.
>
> Thanks
>
> Simon Shin
>
> > ----------
> > From:         superflx[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent:         Thursday, June 25, 1998 1:19 PM
> > To:   [log in to unmask]
> > Subject:      Re: [TN] Nitrogen in the wavesolderingproces
> >
> > If you use a No-Clean flux with clean, fresh components and new HAL or
> > OSP boards, the nitrogen will add, marginally, to the process.? If you
> > use a water-soluble flux, the nitrogen does not add anything as the
> > flux will overcome any oxidation problems.
> > Our experiuence has been that Nitrogen doesn't necessarily add
> > anything to the soldering process, but helps reduce drossing of
> > solder.? If reducing dross can help save money relative to the cost of
> > nitrogen, then its a worthwhile investment.
> > Phil
> > Jesper Kj?rnulf Konge wrote:
> >       ?? At our factory we are going to have a new waesolderingmachine
> > with nitrogensupport. But our director dosen't think that we need the
> > nitrogen because it has no effect compared to the price that we have
> > to pay. But in me department we dosen't aggree.?? I would like to hear
> > about your experience with nitrogen so that we can tell our director
> > that it isn't just us that thinks that nitrogen soldering is good. And
> > if anyone has a meaning about the Seho MWS-8200 PWR i would like to
> > hear that too.?With Regards?Jesper KongeDanica Supply A/SDenmark?Mail
> > : [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
>
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