We did evaluation on embedded discrete passive components (size:0402). Some point to take note;
a) "special" passive components with copper terminal - expensive / long lead-time (handling and storage form part of the formulation)
b) A number of suppliers BUT who only want high volume quantity
c) Different suppliers have some different in the way they get the process done.
d) Why 0402...capability of suppliers
e) Measurement show consistent components value with their specification even after thermal cycling
f) have to work with PCB supplier on the PCB layout design requirement so to provide the needed information to them
g) cost is a main factor....
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dean Stadem
Sent: Thursday, 20 April 2017 6:58 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Embedded Passive PCB
Ok, I understand. Outside of embedded foil, I don’t know what else you can do.
But I am no expert in this particular area. I am sure others out there will chime in with ideas/advice.
Dean Stadem
Process Engineer
Analog Technologies Corp.
11441 Rupp Drive
Burnsville, MN 55337
952-894-9228 X165
fax: 952-984-2966
[log in to unmask]
http://www.analog-tech.com/
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From: Dave Schaefer [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 5:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: (Designers Council Forum); Dave Schaefer
Subject: Re: [DC] Embedded Passive PCB
Designs in question can't benefit from PoP.
They are all "hybrid" containing both signal processing and high drive outputs (~10A).
In other words, 5 to 10 higher pin count processor / memory type packages and 900 or more support devices (ICs, Fets, discretes).
Goal in specifying embedded resistance / capacitance is to reclaim space currently occupied by decouplers, which appears somewhat achievable,
and pullup / pulldowns which pose a challenge because of their high resistance values.
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Dean Stadem <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Embedded does add cost as well as reduced reliability, although not huge.
Have you considered PoP?
Dean Stadem
Process Engineer
Analog Technologies Corp.
11441 Rupp Drive
Burnsville, MN 55337
952-894-9228 X165 <tel:952-894-9228%20X165>
fax: 952-984-2966
[log in to unmask]
http://www.analog-tech.com/
This email is intended for the exclusive use by the person(s) mentioned as recipient(s). This email and its attachments, if any, contain confidential information and/or copyright. This email does not constitute any commitment from Analog Technologies Corp(ATC). except when expressly agreed in a written agreement between the intended recipient and ATC. If you receive this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this email immediately from your system and destroy all copies of it. You may not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print or copy this email or any part of it if you are not the intended recipient. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient.
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Schaefer
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [DC] Embedded Passive PCB
Have a few designs that have reached the limit as far as usable PCB surface space for components and am investigating the feasibility of embedded passives. Specifically I am looking at the specification of "foil" materials and patterns versus embedding actual physical components.
Can anyone provide feedback on experiences with this technology:
- Are there many fabricators who build embedded passive PCBs?
- Is there a huge cost premium involved?
- Is embedded passive PCB fabrication offered as a standard production service ( as opposed to advanced / limited qty)?
- Are the materials used all proprietary?
Thanks,
Dave
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