isn't that pd layer patented by TI?  if your vendor didn't license  
it, it wouldn't have Pd? (or is it? )
On Nov 1, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Mattix, Dwight wrote:

> Yes, XRF would point out the presence of Pd but that aside from the  
> original question. That was about distinguishing hard  
> (electrolytic) gold from ENIG.  Seems that a section is still the  
> simplest. Cut and polish a quickie, hold in a spring clip on the  
> scope, no potting,  just a matter of minutes.
>
> The mention of ENEPIG was just in passing to keep that possibility  
> in mind. When in NYC one hears hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. ;)
>
>
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 9:02 AM
> To: Mattix, Dwight <[log in to unmask]>
> Cc: Forum, TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Hard Au vs ENIG detection (was [TN] Test)
>
> Since you don't have an XRF I understand why you said in your cast  
> a section was quicker/easier but I'm sure if you hadn't lost your  
> XRF in a reorganization you would do the XRF measurement because it  
> would be much quicker/easier than a section
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Dwight Mattix"  
> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Cc: "TechNet Forum" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:57:46 AM
> Subject: RE: Hard Au vs ENIG detection (was [TN] Test)
>
> Indeed.
>
> In my case, it’s quicker/easier to do a section from a solder  
> sample. Lost XRF in a reorg… ☺
>
> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>  
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:53 AM
> To: Mattix, Dwight  
> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Cc: Forum, TechNet <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Subject: Re: Hard Au vs ENIG detection (was [TN] Test)
>
> Dwight,
>
> I agree with you that ENEPIG has been finding more use in contact  
> applications but a simple XRF measurement would let you know if  
> there were Pd between the ImmAu and the ENi..
>
> George
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Dwight Mattix"  
> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum"  
> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>,  
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:42:21 AM
> Subject: RE: Hard Au vs ENIG detection (was [TN] Test)
>
> Yes, traditionally. However ENEPIG is finding more use in contact  
> applications. It's not just a "universal" finish suitable for both  
> soldering and bonding but it turns out also useful in many cases  
> for contact wear resistance.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of George Wenger
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:39 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Hard Au vs ENIG detection (was [TN] Test)
>
> Victor,
>
> In my opinion if you are talking about a metal contact or pin that  
> I would assume that the gold plating is electrolytic plated  
> Typically those types of metal contacts used to be electrolytic  
> plated with thick gold (i.e., around 30 microinches) but over the  
> years the trend has been to reduce costs and many companies reduced  
> the electrolytic gold plating thickness to around 5 microinches.
>
> George
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Victor G Hernandez"  
> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:27:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Hard Au vs ENIG detection (was [TN] Test)
>
> This is true on a PWB gold finger. How about a connector contact  
> pin/button? The contact has no edges per say.
>
> Victor,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mattix, Dwight
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 10:03 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Hard Au vs ENIG detection (was [TN] Test)
>
> X-section will tell very quickly whether it's hard Au or ENIG. Hard  
> gold will have an overhang that extends out beyond the underlying  
> etched copper.
>
>
> Hard gold is indeed an electrolytic process. As such, except in a  
> few very specialized pwb fabs, it is applied before the outer layer  
> is etched. The unetched, solid copper outerlayer serves as the buss  
> for the electrolytic plating. A photoresist is applied to the  
> outerlayer first so that the NiAu is plated on as the outerlayer  
> circuit pattern. Then the photoresist is removed to expose the  
> underlying copper. The panel is then etched and the NiAu pattern  
> serves as the etch resist for the outerlayer circuit image. As that  
> copper is etched down to the outer layer of laminate, it also  
> etches horizontally back under the NiAu. The result is an  
> overhanging "cornice" of NiAu along all the etched circuit edges.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Giamis, Andy
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Test
>
> Hi Victor,
> The great and all-knowing Wikipedia says hard gold often contains a  
> small amount of cobalt or nickel.
> I am also not an expert, but I believe hard gold is an electrolytic  
> process. Although the electrolytic process can be stopped any time,  
> typically target thicknesses are considerably thicker (30 micro- 
> inches or more). If you are looking at 5 micro-inches, I'd guess it  
> is immersion gold. The best action is to ask the supplier. If  
> that's not an option, try EDS looking for cobalt. That's no  
> guarantee, but positive results for cobalt would be informative. 5  
> micro-inches would be too thin to look for nickel. Good luck.
>
> Did I pass the test?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of  
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:19 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Test
>
> Fellow TechNetters:
>
> I did not receive a response the FIRST time . therefore I pose the  
> inquiry once again.
>
> “Is there a test or method to determine if gold plating is hard  
> gold or ENIG? XRF will determine thickness of gold but will not  
> verify plating process. I am working with a measurement of 5 micro  
> inches of gold.”
>
> Victor,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Hillman
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:14 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Test
>
> I don't know about the rest of the folks but I received an A+ and  
> its rumored you received a C-
>
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Douglas Pauls <  
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> 
>  wrote:
>
>> And what percentage of our grade is this test?
>>
>>
>> Doug Pauls
>> Principal Materials and Process Engineer Rockwell Collins
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Vadim Matveyev
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Test
>>>
>>
>
>