Louis,
 
> Does the entry control department actually do a manufacturer audit on-site?
> (The name 'entry control department' is one I have not heard before.)
 
The name "entry control department" is a direct translation from french, so
maybe this is not the right english expression...
For this specific manufacturer, i'm not sure they did the audit and as I said,
they don't seem to be familiar with the 6012 requirements.
 
> Is your board supplier charging the same price for class 2 and class 3 boards?
> That is hard to believe. As you see in 6012, the class 2 requirements are
> easier to meet. From time to time we scrap boards for not meeting class 3
> requirements called for by a customer, although they meet class 2.
> Microsectioning of class 3 boards calls for more samples than for class 2
 
This is why I don't think we have a class 3 PCB but a class 2. Thank you to
confirm my doubts.
 
 
If I have to sum-up : the manufacturer have no obligation to store any test
report but it's a bit suspicious.
 
 
Thank you for your feedback
 
Regards,
 
Gorka
 
 

> Le 3 novembre 2015 à 22:51, Louis Hart <[log in to unmask]> a écrit :
>
>
> I was out yesterday and clearing the desk so far today, hence what may seem
> like a slow response.
>
> You are correct, to my knowledge, about data retention of 6012 testing - it
> depends on the company's procedures. If you want, I can provide our record
> retention work instruction for a sample.
>
> Does the entry control department actually do a manufacturer audit on-site?
> (The name 'entry control department' is one I have not heard before.)
>
> How can you be sure? The flippant answer is you can be sure if you witness the
> inspections and tests yourself. Regarding their existence, I do not know why
> someone would prepare a report and not keep it for a finite time. If a
> customer complains or questions what we have done, I want to have some record
> that we at least know what we did and to have evidence that we made every
> effort, even if our own records demonstrate we made a mistake. Since some
> customers wait a year or more before using boards we build, I would want to
> keep our records for two years or more. (You remember I said we keep them for
> at least seven years with the production travelers.)
>
> Is your board supplier charging the same price for class 2 and class 3 boards?
> That is hard to believe. As you see in 6012, the class 2 requirements are
> easier to meet. From time to time we scrap boards for not meeting class 3
> requirements called for by a customer, although they meet class 2.
> Microsectioning of class 3 boards calls for more samples than for class 2.
> Louis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gorka BIROT
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 7:50 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] TR: [TN] Class 2/3 test report traceability
>
> Louis,
>
> If I do understand well, the manufacturer has no obligation to store the
> 6012 test reports and any data retention mainly depends on each company
> quality procedures ?
>
> To be clear, the entry control department of my company does PCB manufacturer
> auditing but they were not awared about 6012's tests described in table 4-3.
>
> How can I be sure that the PCB I designed meets the class 3 requirements if I
> can't check the reports (and if I have serious doubts about their
> existence) and theirs frequencies ?
>
> One more hint: there is no impact on the price between a class 3 and class 2
> when we purchase a PCB....
>
> Gorka BIROT
> Embedded systems engineer
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Louis Hart [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2015 23:21
> À : Gorka BIROT <[log in to unmask]>
> Objet : RE: [TN] Class 2/3 test report traceability
>
> Good question. IPC does not, to my knowledge, which is not slight, define
> any retention period. We keep traveler packages for a minimum of seven
> years. These packages contain the final inspection checklist, certificate of
> electrical test, certificate of conformance, and microsection report. The
> microsection coupon mounts we keep for a minimum of three years, along with
> the un-sectioned coupons.
>
> IPC-9252, the electrical test specification to which IPC-6012 refers,
> defines information required on a certificate of test, which you might call
> a specification regarding traceability.
>
> Has a manufacturer in fact said "we are certified for class 3 production"?
> Or are you anticipating such a response? I would answer with a question:
> "What does 'certification' mean, and who 'certified' you?" I might also
> ask, "Why do you prepare reports if you are not going to keep them?" (What
> do they mean by "reports"?) It would make more sense to have operators and
> inspectors just sign the various production and inspection steps on the
> traveler.
>
> IPC offers 'validation services', directed by Randy Cherry, with validated
> companies listed here: http://www.ipcvalidation.org/html/list.htm Validation
> services started in 2013, I think, so only a few companies are on the list
> and none are 6012 validated as I see it. My understanding is that 6012
> validation has only been possible starting early this year. I believe a
> company can be validated to class 2 or 3, in the context of various
> technology parameters.
>
> IPC-6011 describes 'qualification', but such qualification is based on a
> demonstration agreed to by the supplier and customer, if my understanding is
> correct.
>
> Certifications or qualifications to ISO 9000 or MIL-PRF-31032 I do not
> consider impressive, although they do indicate at least some minimal level
> of competence. I tell people, if you are concerned about a printed circuit
> board supplier, you better go have a look for yourself. Fabrication of
> printed circuit boards is not nearly as easy as at lot of people think it
> is. Louis
>
> ______________________

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