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From:
Ioan Tempea <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Ioan Tempea <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 2 Nov 2015 12:43:51 +0000
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Gorka,

Please remember that everything comes from the design authority. Everything you need shall be specified in the technical notes. You want reports, ask for them in those notes. As clearly specified by IPC, customer specification takes precedence on standards, therefore your suppliers are bound to provide you with what you want, even if this is above IPC requirements, as soon as they've signed the contract.

If you need bulletproof notes, I would advise you to purchase this document http://www.engelmaier.com/white-paper.html

Best regards,

Ioan Tempea, P. Eng.
Manufacturing Engineer, Satellite Systems 

MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates Corporation, 21025 Trans-Canada Highway, Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC, Canada H9X 3R2
Tel: +1-514-457-2150 x3556
www.mdacorporation.com

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-----Message d'origine-----
De : TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part de Gorka BIROT
Envoyé : Sunday, November 01, 2015 7:50 AM
À : [log in to unmask]
Objet : [TN] TR: [TN] Class 2/3 test report traceability

Louis,

If I do understand well, the manufacturer has no obligation to store the
6012 test reports and any data retention mainly depends on each company quality procedures ?

To be clear, the entry control department of my company does PCB manufacturer auditing but they were not awared about 6012's tests described in table 4-3. 

How can I be sure that the PCB I designed meets the class 3 requirements if I can't check the reports (and if I have serious doubts about their
existence) and theirs frequencies ?

One more hint: there is no impact on the price between a class 3 and class 2 when we purchase a PCB....

Gorka BIROT
Embedded systems engineer
[log in to unmask]



-----Message d'origine-----
De : Louis Hart [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2015 23:21
À : Gorka BIROT <[log in to unmask]>
Objet : RE: [TN] Class 2/3 test report traceability

Good question.  IPC does not, to my knowledge, which is not slight, define
any retention period.  We keep traveler packages for a minimum of seven
years. These packages contain the final inspection checklist, certificate of
electrical test, certificate of conformance, and microsection report.  The
microsection coupon mounts we keep for a minimum of three years, along with
the un-sectioned coupons.

IPC-9252, the electrical test specification to which IPC-6012 refers,
defines information required on a certificate of test, which you might call
a specification regarding traceability.

Has a manufacturer in fact said "we are certified for class 3 production"?
Or are you anticipating such a response?  I would answer with a question:
"What does 'certification' mean, and who 'certified' you?"  I might also
ask, "Why do you prepare reports if you are not going to keep them?" (What
do they mean by "reports"?)  It would make more sense to have operators and
inspectors just sign the various production and inspection steps on the
traveler.

 IPC offers 'validation services', directed by Randy Cherry, with validated
companies listed here: http://www.ipcvalidation.org/html/list.htm Validation
services started in 2013, I think, so only a few companies are on the list
and none are 6012 validated as I see it.  My understanding is that 6012
validation has only been possible starting early this year. I believe a
company can be validated to class 2 or 3, in the context of various
technology parameters.

IPC-6011 describes 'qualification', but such qualification is based on a
demonstration agreed to by the supplier and customer, if my understanding is
correct.

Certifications or qualifications to ISO 9000 or MIL-PRF-31032 I do not
consider impressive, although they do indicate at least some minimal level
of competence.  I tell people, if you are concerned about a printed circuit
board supplier, you better go have a look for yourself.  Fabrication of
printed circuit boards is not nearly as easy as at lot of people think it
is.  Louis

-----Original Message-----
From: Gorka BIROT [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 4:06 PM
To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum' <[log in to unmask]>; Louis Hart
<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: [TN] Class 2/3 test report traceability

Louis,

Thanks for the answer but when you say : 
"Customers who want either the checklist or microsection report are welcome
to have them. "

If the manufacturer answers "we are certified for class 3 production, we
don't have to store the test reports", what can I answer ? Does the IPC
specify anything about test reports traceability and theirs storage ?

Thank you

Gorka BIROT
Embedded systems engineer
[log in to unmask]


-----Message d'origine-----
De : TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part de Louis Hart Envoyé :
vendredi 30 octobre 2015 20:00 À : [log in to unmask] Objet : Re: [TN] Class
2/3 test report traceability

Look at Table 4-3 of IPC-6012 to see what inspections are to be performed. 

We have a checklist summarizing all attribute and variables testing for each
job.  Not all boards or panels are tested, for example, for solderability or
for bow and twist.  Table 4-2, as referenced by Table 4-3, define the number
to be tested.

Further, we prepare a microsection report for panels, inspected as described
in Table 4-3.  Class 3 multilayers get (based on our lot size) 100%
microsection. Class 2 two-layer panels get sampled.  (If one of the
two-layer  samples fails, the remainder are microsectioned.)

Customers who want either the checklist or microsection report are welcome
to have them.  

Louis Hart

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gorka BIROT
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 2:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Class 2/3 test report traceability

Dear all,

 

We have purchased a class 3 PCB and I want to check that all the tests
required by the IPC 6012 have been performed. 

 

The traceability chapter of the IPC 6012 isn't really clear : does the
manufacturer must store the test report of each board/panel ? Can I required
him to send me those test reports ?

 

If the answer is "no", how can I be sure that my PCB is conform to a class 3
specifications ? 

 

Regards,

 

Gorka BIROT

Embedded systems engineer 

 <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]

 

 



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