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July 2015

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Subject:
From:
Wayne Thayer <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Wayne Thayer <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 1 Jul 2015 20:25:48 +0000
Content-Type:
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Hi Steve-

Wow! I hadn't seen that particular trick before. Thanks for the education. 
Doesn't look cheap....

Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 9:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Fabrication house with Embedded 
DiscreteComponentCapability

Hi Geok Ang,

I worked at a previous employer who did embedded capacitors and resistors.
I worked at the assembly division of R&D Circuits, and the PCB Division in New 
Jersey fabricated the boards for us.
They could do some pretty amazing things in New Jersey, 40-layer boards, vias 
with aspect ratios of 30:1 or more, and embedded components. Check
out:

http://www.rdaltanova.com/board-manufacturing/

Steve

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Tan Geok Ang <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Dear All,
>         Thank for the terms clarification. I am looking for insert
> (discrete) embedded components not form (planar/thin-film) embedded
> components in PCB.
> Regards
> Geok Ang
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joel Peiffer
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2015 5:32 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Fabrication house with Embedded
> DiscreteComponentCapability
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> These may be terms that are utilized elsewhere in the electronics
> industry but for Embedded Components which we are discussing below,
> per IPC documentation, Formed components and Placed (or Inserted)
> components are classes of embedded components.  Check out the IPC
> documentation in
> IPC-2316 and elsewhere.  I have worked in the embedded components
> industry for 20 years and these are the terms that are used.
>
> Regards, Joel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stadem, Richard D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 3:32 PM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Joel Peiffer
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: PCB Fabrication house with Embedded Discrete
> ComponentCapability
>
> No, the commonly understood terms within the industry are:
>
> 1) "Formed components" are those whose leads are formed prior to assembly.
> Examples are SMT QFPs and SOICs where the leads exit at the top of the
> body and are in frames, where prior to assembly the QFP requires
> excision from the frame and the leads are also formed into a gullwing
> shape. Another example is through-hole axial leads bent 90 degrees and
> trimmed, sometimes with a standoff bend, etc.
>
> 2) "Inserted components" are typically considered to be PTH components
> that are inserted into PTH holes and soldered, either by hand or by
> axial insertion machines along with selective or wave soldering.
>
> 3) "Embedded components" are those that are embedded into the PWB as
> part of the PWB fabrication process. Just about every smart phone and
> tablet utilizes embedded technology. There is more than one process
> for doing this; conductive-ink printed and subsequently laminated
> PWBs, or encapsulated, such as Joe (The Wizard) Fjelstad's  Verdant Occam 
> process.
>
> dean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joel Peiffer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 3:08 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Fabrication house with Embedded Discrete
> Component Capability
>
> "Inserted Components" are fully functional components such as caps,
> resistors, etc. that can be inserted into boards.  "Formed" components
> are components that made as part of the PCB fab process.  Both
> inserted and formed components (mostly caps and resistors) are fairly
> common these days for many products (for example, just about every
> smart phone and tablet utilizes formed technology).  Inserted
> components were probably first used in the 1980s or early 1990s.  Formed 
> components were first used the 1960s.
>
> You need to define whether you mean inserted or formed as many PCB
> fabs utilize one technology but few offer both.
>
> Regards, Joel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wayne Thayer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 12:02 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [TN] PCB Fabrication house with Embedded
> Discrete Component Capability
>
> Hi GA Tan-
>
> The question is what you mean by "discrete". For most people it means
> a passive which "stands on its own" as opposed to something done with
> special dielectrics and/or resistive metal layers to create passives
> within a circuit board.
>
> For the embedding of truly discrete components, this is Joe Fjelstad's
> special area. He had a shop build a demo circuit. His website covering
> the technology is www.verdantelectronics.com
>
> The tricky part is how to electrically connect to the passives.
> Probably a laser could be used to dig down to the part and then plate up a 
> contact.
> But most end terminations are covered with Sn, which is particularly
> difficult to make contact to (other than with solder).
>
> For the other technique, using special foils and/or dielectrics, there
> are a few competing products. They all seem to substantially increase
> the number of steps required to make a board, and they are so
> volume-inefficient that there are only a small number of cases where
> they work out economically.
>
> Wayne Thayer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tan Geok Ang
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:13 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] PCB Fabrication house with Embedded Discrete Component
> Capability
>
> Dear All,
>                I'm looking for PCB supplier who has the above
> capability for proto design. Any recommendation? Thank in advance.
>
> Regards
> GA Tan
>
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