better at what? good question.
(maybe I should apologize to the group for not knowing what to ask. SORRY!)
and maybe I should quietly withdraw and go read Coombs PCB Handbook,
(which I completely forgot about)
but in fairness to the rest of this group, who may be questioning my sanity
right now,
I'll phrase it one more way before I go into hiding.
I've tried to write a basic tutorial for new designers at
http://HowToPCB.net
(or http://frontdoor.biz/HowToPCB/HowToPCB.html )
since the reflow soldering process is the harshest condition a PCB will
ever experience
and better materials are now available this decade for RoHS compatibilty
I explained the reasoning for calling out materials like /126 and /129
ok with that.
My company uses /126 and a bazillion others do too (or /129),
We've never experienced any problems with them,
and so far we haven't ever had to look for anything better.
fine.
but one point that I believe that should be covered in any good tutorial, is
"How should a Designer know when /126 or /129 isn't good enough?"
I don't know how to answer that question, or provide any advice for it.
(but I am willing to learn more about materials,
and I will cheerfully fade away for awhile)
sorry for posting such a vague question here.
onward thru the fog,
Jack
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Brooks, William <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Better at what Jack?
> Better is relative... how much better and in what way better would give
> someone a specific thing to comment on...
> How about better at thermal transfer of energy thru the board in the
> z-axis vertically or how about horizontally in x or y... ? How much better
> would you need.. which characteristic would you give up in exchange for it?
> Flatness? Rigidity? Tensile strength? Flexibility?
>
> There are so many avenues to go down... which direction do you want to
> wander?
> :)
>
> William Brooks, CID+
> Printed Circuit Designer
> 2747 Loker Ave West
> Carlsbad, CA 92010-6603
> 760-930-7212
> Fax: 760.918.8332
> Mobile: 760.216.0170
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jack
> Olson
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 2:26 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] Question of the Week - Laminates and Temperature
>
> Well, I think IPC-D-275 went obsolete in 1996?
> but I hope you're enjoying your flashbacks!
>
> For the other question that was asked, sorry if I wasn't clear.
> We have already been using /126 for several years, I was just wondering
> what a good step towards BETTER thermal characteristics would be BEYOND
> /126 (like what might be used in an automotive engine compartment.) Maybe
> /126 IS used there, I wouldn't know, but I don't know how to ask any
> clearer, sorry I just want a better idea of how a designer should know when
> to look for something better
>
> I'm not sure I even have an IPC-D-279, I'll look...
> but I sure would feel more comfortable reading something that was written
> in THIS millennium (for the record, I don't think IPC-4101/126 even EXISTED
> back then)
>
> but thanks for taking the time to answer, Jack
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:38 PM, Dean Stadem <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Jack, get a copy of IPC-D-279 and check out section 4.0. Also please
> > read through IPC-D-275.
> > The IPC put all of that information there just for you, Jack, because
> > they just knew that someday you would realize you were not happy with
> > plain old
> > FR-4 anymore.
> > Just for you, completely detailed and all laid out. No need to go
> > anywhere else. Not even Barnes and Noble. Nope, nossir, it's all right
> there.
> > Everything you ever wanted to know about PWB substrate materials.
> > Everything.
> > Suffer from insomnia? Well, here is a sure cure.
> > But speaking from experience, nothing could be better for a fellow
> > Viking such as yourself than to curl up in the fish house on a cold
> > March night with a little battery-operated LED lamp and soak in
> > IPC-D-279 while listening for that little "jingle, tink" from the reel
> on the wall!
> > There are also a number of reference documents listed in one or both
> > of those two standards, in case you just can't wait for the next edition.
> > Sorry, but they would not let me put the ads for the X-ray glasses and
> > opportunities for further education from the Close Cover Before
> > Striking Institute of Advanced Electronics Design in the back pages.
> > As the Marvel editors used to say...'Nuff said.
> > Dean
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> > Jack Olson
> > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:35 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [DC] Question of the Week - Laminates and Temperature
> >
> > Ok, let me say right here, I really was NOT going to try and make up a
> > "Question of the Week" just for something to do. If you guys WANT to
> > discuss different topics on a regular basis, I'm all for it. but I
> > honestly need to ask about this (I'm not just "stirring the pot").
> > So I'm showing my ignorance by asking this, but I'm not sure where to
> > go for help...
> >
> > During the transition to meeting RoHS requirements and designing for
> > RoHS compatibility we have begun specifying a higher quality of
> > material than we used to, conforming to IPC-4101/126
> >
> > What I would like to understand is:
> > How to know when I should be looking for a EVEN BETTER material
> > (related to high-temperature applications and long-term thermal
> > cycling). What IS the next step up? What would be used in an
> > automotive engine compartment, for example?
> >
> > I am usually designing products like displays that are in a more
> > benign environment, but where can I learn more about this?
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
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