Hi George!

Got it posted. It's here:

http://stevezeva.homestead.com/Solder_Spectra_by_Old_Fischer_XDLM_XRF.pdf

Steve

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Wenger, George M. [Contractor] <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Graham,
>
> I agree with everything Bev said with one clarification, neither the XRF
> or the swabs are accurate enough to LEGALLY CERTIFY a product is RoHS
> Pb-Free compliant.  However for manufacturing an XRF is an excellent tool
> for giving one confidence that the components they are buying and the
> product they are producing is RoHS Pb-Free.  I've attached a PDF file with
> XRF spectra of different solders that I obtained from our 12 year old
> Fischer XDLM-PCB XRF.  I've also copied Steve in hopes he can post the file
> on his site.  This old XRF which has only a proportional detector cost
> around $36K and the newer XRF's on the market with solid state detectors
> are in the $95K range. A spectrum of a material can be obtained with and
> XRF and it is really quick and easy to look at a spectrum and tell the
> difference between SnPb solder and Pb-Free solder.  However when you ask an
> XRF to quantify the spectrum for elements like Sn and Pb and Ag and Cu the
> software in the XRF will take the spectrum and quantify it for just those
> elements and the capability of the XRF isn't good enough to accurately
> determine were low ppm values.  When you look at the attached file you will
> see the Sn, Ag and Cu peaks in the spectrum of the SAC305 solder.  The
> quantification is good enough to indicate the spectrum is consistent with
> SAC305.  However, if you ask the XRF to quantify Sn, Ag, Cu and Pb you find
> out the XRF indicates the Pb is 0.2% which clearly isn't RoHS Compliant but
> it is because the XRF isn't accurate enough to LEGALLY CERTIFY the solder
> is Pb-Free.
>
> Besides checking incoming components for Pb-Free we use the XRF to check
> solder joints after a hand solder component replacement or repair to.  We
> do this to insure that the operator actually did use a Pb-Free solder and
> not a Pb containing solder.  Although the XRF isn't accurate enough to
> LEGALLY CERTIFY Pb-Free it is certainly capable to determine if a solder
> joint was contaminated by an operator using a soldering iron from a SnPb
> line even if they used a Pb-Free solder.
>
> Regards,
> George
> George M. Wenger
> Failure Signature & Characterization Lab LLC
> 609 Cokesbury Road, High Bridge, NJ 08829
> (908) 638-8771 Home  (732) 309-8964 Mobile
> E-mail [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:39 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] lead free (RoHS) testing in manufacturing
>
> Graham,
> You get what you pay for. I recommend a Fischer XDAL.  Oxford has some
> good offerings, as do Shimadzu and other companies that have been selling
> XRFs for metal thickness measurements.  If you buy one, make sure you buy
> one with apertures of the size you need for the leads you will want to take
> measurements on.  You are looking at at least $50K.  I know one of the
> Shimadzu ones can pull a vacuum in the chamber which allows you to detect
> lighter elements than my Fischer, but this is even more $$.
>
> I would NOT recommend a hand held unit, especially for use in Canada. Not
> only will you have to abide by any provincial legislation, you will also
> have to comply with the federal Red Act, which is pretty onerous.  Take a
> course, another course for an instructor with a written test, eye test,
> color blindness test. I was told these things sequentially by a dealer, NOT
> up front and when I then said I didn't wan this device, he said since I had
> accept at our delivery dock a smaller portion of the accessories for the
> device that if I wanted to "return" the handheld, which I had not actually
> taken possession of, that there would be a 20% restocking fee - on a
> $42,000 piece of equipment.  Ouch!
>
> Gabriele has given good advice about the lead swab tests.  Good for a
> really rough first go, but would never stand up to scrutiny by ECHA.
>
> Way around this?  When you ask for certificates of compliance for the
> components you buy, demand an accompanying chemical test report that stands
> behind the CoC. Preferably the report is from somebody like Intertek or SGS.
>
> Regards,
> Bev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Collins
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 2:37 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] lead free (RoHS) testing in manufacturing
>
> Good day TechNet
> We are a late arrival to the lead-free party, as our customers thus far
> are exempt.  But a couple of them see the writing on the wall and are
> moving toward RoHS compliance.  Which leads me to two questions with
> regards to our testing of parts to ensure compliance.
>
> The first question - what XRF?  We are concerned with price given that we
> are dipping our feet here, does anyone have a recommendation for a good but
> inexpensive unit?
>
> Second question is concerning alternative test methods, a customer is
> planning to use 3M LeadCheck swabs (LC-8S10C) to ensure no lead.  Given
> that the product is described as for use on painted surfaces I don't think
> this is intended as a way to verify lead-free status on electronics.  Any
> comments on this?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> regards,
>
> Graham Collins
> Senior Process Engineer
> Sunsel Systems
> (902) 444-7867 ext 211
>
>
>
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