or a tornado cellar....Mike, no risk, Technet members are so old and
civilized that it demands a tsunami to cause a reaction. Personally, FB
brings me in contact with interesting people, e.g "Grizzly" Ed, if you
can figure out who he is. I don't see why so many elder are so suspicious
about FB, you decide yourself how this tool should work. I see a new
Technet with wider perspective than solely soldering and PWBs, but that
won't fit IPC's area of interest, of course.
Inge
Forum exoletus
On 19 August 2013 06:22, Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> A post script.
> Coincidentally on a Triumph car forum a similar discussion about the
> future produced this from a <40 years old member (who was asked for his
> thoughts)
>
> ...With the greatest respect, the Forum type format is quite old fashioned
> and not representative of how younger people use the Internet. If we had a
> 'Yoof' page on the forum it simply wouldn't be used as we would be using
> Facebook instead. We are used to tagging each other in photo's, sharing
> links quickly, sending event alerts to each others smartphones and chatting
> live on instant messenger or writing on individual friends walls. Facebook
> is more accessible and more a part of everyday life on the move for people
> of my age...
>
> I'm going to have a lie down now...
>
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 9:07 PM
> To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; 'Steven Creswick'
> Subject: RE: [TN] Refreshment
>
> Whizzing through this and lots of interesting stuff. A few comments to add.
> When I moved to manufacturing electronics industry from BBC in late 60s,
> electronics was the place to be. Everything was to be discovered. So we
> grew
> the industry, making it up as we went along. The industry was large and
> growing with lots of money. But it was a lot simpler too so it was possible
> to know your speciality and a lot of everything else as well. Networking
> was
> everything and possible.
> Fast forward, the industry is mature, same as most of us. Electronics is
> ubiquitous and cheap. Everything has a spec and a roadmap. There is little
> to discover in conventional electronics except smaller faster cheaper -
> just
> squeezing the last drop of performance and cost out.
> IN Europe/US the industry is now much smaller and specialised - the
> mainstream centre of gravity has moved away. The money and the young brains
> are going elsewhere. Nano, Printed electronics/display technology, bio etc.
> We also have to think that most people under the age of say 40 don't find
> out stuff from forums, they use Facebook, instant messaging and stuff like
> that. So are probably under represented on TechNet.
> So far as making and understanding stuff is concerned, yes it is a concern
> that young people today do not have the opportunities we had to make and
> learn. Click http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi to see one
> initiative
> to give youngsters a modern equivalent.
> For myself I fixed the practical side of stuff with my 2 sons like this: As
> they grew to their late teens approaching driving age they were getting
> bored going camping/kayaking with dad. So I bought an old wreck of a
> Triumph
> Spitfire sports car and drove it on to my front lawn. Then we erected our
> frame tent over it, [where it stayed for the next year]. Inside the three
> of
> us took the car to bits and rebuilt it as new. When done they had learned a
> lot of practical skills, budgeting, mechanics, electrical stuff, project
> planning, patience, teamwork, how cars worked and all that stuff.
> Then they learned to drive and were able to learn - some of the time anyway
> - in the car they themselves had built.
> This car rebuild featured heavily in their CV (resume) when time came to
> get
> a job and was useful. Now they both live and work in Africa they still
> benefit as they are competent bush mechanics and can fix most other stuff
> as
> well.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:04 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
>
> Ditto the erector set activities. Could certainly learn a great deal about
> mechanics in general. My greatest fun came from taking TV and radios apart
> and/or sometimes making them work again. I remember one old TV where they
> must have used acid core solder on the wiring. Just touch any of the wires
> going to the tuner and they would fall off. Hopeless!
>
> Big fun was finding a neon sign behind a guys shop that he was junking out.
> 20-30KV transformers make cool Jacob's ladders and absolute carnage as bug
> zappers! Never got bit!
>
> I think the greatest instruction was having my father give me an old two
> barrel carb and tell me to take it apart and put it back together again [it
> was clean, or else my mother may have done the job that the sign
> transformers did not...]. I ended up with a spare jet or two the first
> time. The float spring and valve seemed easy though.
>
> Nowadays, all the underhood electronics are glued and plastic welded shut
> and covered with elephant snot or parylene to protect the chips. It just
> isn't as fun ... :-)
>
> Good memories! Thanks
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:07 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
>
> What an excellent post! Don't forget the old Erector sets. I learned all
> about electric current flow, polarity, power derating, etc., without even
> realizing it. I remember taking the little battery-operated motors out of
> toy cars and building a winch to hoist Lincoln logs. Building an electric
> fence for the plastic cows using the Tyco train power supply was not such a
> good idea, however, because my sister stepped on it and damn near
> electrocuted herself. After that, my playtime was monitored for awhile.
> Unfortunately, kids in the 80s and 90s only learned to play computer games.
> Today they can program in C++ but if they need to change a tire or replace
> the plug on an AC cord they're screwed.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of <Bruce Tostevin>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
>
> Pat,
>
> Both you and Doug make interesting points. I think to some extent,
> especially in electronics we've slowly become victims of our own successes
> at microminiaturization and automation. Most of us in the U.S. grew up
> with Heath, Eico and Knight kits for everything from stereo, ham and test
> equipment to weather stations. Allen Bradley, Mallory, JW Miller, RCA,
> Motorola, TI and Stancor parts all had leads and terminals that could be
> twisted, soldered or screwed together. If Lafayette, Radio Shack or the
> local electronics store didn't have the capacitors, photocells,
> transistors,
> logic devices and analog ICs you needed, there were plenty of places that
> would sell you $10 worth of parts - no $50 minimum PO required. In the
> day,
> even walking around a Lafayette or RS was educational. Old radios and TVs
> were goldmines for great useful parts. Sometimes you even got one of them
> working again.
>
> Before the advent of the microprocessor driven "CHECK ENGINE" light you
> could mess around with carburetors, pull out the tach-dwell & timing light
> and actually work on and learn about the basic electronics behind an
> ignition system and its relationship to the timing of the engine. Hobby and
> trade magazines like Popular Electronics, Electronics Now,
> Radio-Electronics
> (some of which are evolutions of the same magazine under different owners),
> QST and the like were chock full of technical articles, Q & A columns,
> build-it projects and their back pages filled with suppliers selling
> everything from surplus military equipment to lasers.
>
> Much of this is gone now and the early hobbyist opportunities all that
> infrastructure afforded gone with it. Today in the era of unmarked 0603s,
> 0402s, barely manageable smt solid state devices and the limited usefulness
> of point-point layout and wiring it's become far more difficult for a young
> teen to start playing around with electronics on a bench at home. While
> I'm
> certainly not advocating a return to the "good old days", it's
> understandable how this has in part contributed to where we find ourselves
> today in as, Doug wrote, trying " to capture the imagination of the youth
> to
> combat the shortage of skilled labor," and your difficulty in finding
> analog
> techs with a little experience. In some respects that early germination has
> been stunted by the new technologies. Nothing says, "I think there's a
> problem with my circuit" like overheated parts and melting wires on a
> proto-board, and is as rewarding as figuring out the solution.
>
> Bruce Tostevin
> Benchmark Electronics
> Nashua, NH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pat Goodyear
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:21 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
>
> We have a couple of engineers that work with local high schools in
> robotics.
> We are finding that finding I&C technicians that have skills to work on
> analog don't exist, there are no schools. So we have been mentoring
> new-hires one on one to give them some basic skills.
> Most of the equipment we use was designed in the late '60s with slide rules
> and they try to engineer it to 6 decimal places and wonder why it won't
> work
> too that accuracy.
> Before I went out 3 months ago we were trying to reverse engineer a high
> voltage power supply that wouldn't work as the vendor supplied it, needed
> to
> turn off with an input controlled SCR but the supply had too much leakage
> current to allow the SCR to fully shut off.
>
>
> Analog techs are hard to come by.
>
> pat
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Stadem, Richard D. wrote:
>
> > Amen! Excellent post, Doug!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 3:24 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
> >
> > Ed,
> > Ain't got a Harley (wish I did). Don't do a lot of internet surfing
> > (cause I end up on YouTube and days pass before I extract myself) Beer
> > drinkin' ain't nothing like college. A 12 pack is a year supply for
> > me. Six months if Hillman comes over.
> >
> > I think a lot of it depends on how your employer views STEM
> > initiatives. One of the things I really like about Rockwell Collins is
> > that they encourage (to varying extents) our engineers to work with
> > local schools to get the young enthusiastic about science and
> > engineering. Might be FIRST Lego League, or FIRST Robotics Challenge.
> > Might be the international rocket competition. Dave and I do
> > something we call The Rockwell Road Show, which we do for anything
> > from pre-school to college. We do 35-45 shows a year and the teachers
> > tell us that it shows the kids that the stuff they see in their books
> > is actually used in the real world. Dave and I are also fortunate to
> > have a boss that lets us do that without worrying what time to charge
> > it too. I think she knows that if Dave and I don't get out every once
> > in a while to have fun like this, we would explode. Not a pretty
> > sight. I understand 3M has a similar program called The Traveling
> > Wizards. NASA has a treasure trove of neat information. We have to
> > capture the imagination of the youth to combat the shortage of skilled
> > labor.
> >
> > What other things could we be doing to pass along to the next
> > generation? If you have chemical knowledge, volunteer to be a guest
> > speaker at your high school chemistry class. Bet the teacher won't
> > turn you down. There are series of fantastic chemical demonstration
> > from Dr. Bassam Shakhashiri, professor emeritus of UW Madison. Be a
> > guest lecturer at the local university or tech college? Many of you
> > may remember Dr. John Sohn, of Bell Labs. When Lucent tanked, he took
> > the early buy out, went to college for a year, and has been teaching
> > high school science classes and loving every minute of it. Thinking
> > of doing the same myself, provided Hillman does not talk me into
> > something stupid and I die.
> >
> > Second, those who have been at IPC meetings know that Dave and I don't
> > do any work, but we are smart enough to hire exceptionally smart
> > college students as engineering co-ops. These young men and women are
> > smarter than I ever remember being at that age. Such a program allows
> > us to mentor the next generation and they often bring to us new
> > knowledge from their courses. If your company does not have an active
> > engineering co-op program, it should have. We would not accomplish a
> > tenth of what we do without them. There was one semester where the
> > budget would not support having co-ops, no matter how much we argued.
> > Six months later, our director wondered why we had not accomplished
> > much. Cuz you took away our co-ops! Are they that important? Yes,
> > they are THAT important!!
> >
> > Does your company allow or encourage Job Shadows? We do. Let the
> > guidance counselors at your local high school know you are interested
> > and I bet you see a number of high school kids interested in STEM
> > jobs.
> > I guess my point is that there are LOTS of thing we can all be doing
> > to help pass along the things we have learned to the next generation.
> > But are we?
> >
> > Doug Pauls
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: 08/13/2013 02:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
> > Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey, now! I'm a bona fide Harley ridin', interweb surfin', beer
> > drinkin' rabble rouser, even at my advanced age (<60 mind you).
> > I've taken a few under my wing and watched them leave the nest and
> > soar. Unfortunately, that seems to be happening less and less as time
> > goes on.
> > Ed Popielarski
> > Engineering Manager
> >
> >
> > 970 NE 21st Ct.
> > Oak Harbor, Wa. 98277
> >
> > Ph: 360-675-1322
> > Fx: 206-624-0965
> > Cl: 949-581-6601
> >
> >
> > https://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?hl=en&ll=48.315753,-122.643578&s
> > pn=0.011188,0.033023&ctz=420&t=m&z=16&iwloc=A
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stadem, Richard D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:18 AM
> > To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Ed Popielarski
> > Subject: RE: [TN] Refreshment
> >
> > Speak for yourself, Ed. Sounds like you have one foot in the grave
> > already.
> > I know many "senior" engineers who have a very high level of energy,
> > have kept up with technology and science, including the 'net, and you
> > could not take their laptops away from them unless you pried their
> > cold dead fingers from it. They are enthusiastic, work well with folks
> > from all age groups, and are eager to share their experience and
> > knowledge as well as learn from the freshly recruited grads. While it
> > is true that the new grads are coming online with certain skills and
> > tools not known or understood by some of the older folks, they are no
> > less enthusiastic and eager to solve today's problems, and they do
> > their pioneering and thinking outside the box just as well as anybody,
> > in fact, perhaps even more so.
> > They just need the proper coaching and encouragement, and 99% of them
> > are ready and willing to step up and start hitting homeruns right
> > where you left off. It is up to us to help them, learn from them,
> > teach them what they are willing to learn from us, and then we all
> > benefit.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ed Popielarski
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:33 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
> >
> > Inge,
> >
> > I, too, have noticed the gradual fade, and it's my opinion we,
> > ourselves, are to blame. Similar to what has happened inside NASA, the
> > "pioneers" that sculpted the industry are dead, dying, retired and
> > tired. We as a society failed to properly backfill with fresh talent
> > and the methodology of upstarting engineering grads is much different
> > than "in our day". Seems to me the new generation engineers have
> > developed a love affair with their desktop computers and the internet
> > (something that didn't even exist when we were sprouting wings) and
> > "we" collectively, are transforming to a more digital existence, as
> > opposed to the hard, wet, hot physical realm. As this evolution
> > proceeds, much of the pioneering spirit is lost, as well as the
> > good-old-fashioned "chutzpah" to "break outside the box, damn the
> > torpedoes, full speed ahead." Job preservation has become a primary
> > focus and this has really retarded the craft.
> >
> > Just my $0.0199999 and ventilation of an issue that I've been
> > containing for some time now.
> >
> > Ed Popielarski
> > Engineering Manager
> >
> >
> > 970 NE 21st Ct.
> > Oak Harbor, Wa. 98277
> >
> > Ph: 360-675-1322
> > Fx: 206-624-0965
> > Cl: 949-581-6601
> >
> >
> > https://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?hl=en&ll=48.315753,-122.643578&s
> > pn=0.011188,0.033023&ctz=420&t=m&z=16&iwloc=A
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge Hernefjord
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 3:00 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Refreshment
> >
> > Technet, once a supernova...now just a fading sparkle. Time for
> > renaissence (french)? Blood transfusion? Vitamin therapy? Dopamin
> > cure?
> > .......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, ...sorry....YYYAAAWN...
> >
> > Inge
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
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