Make mine a double!
I don't have the time to wade through the drama and useless information on Facebook. I have a life filled with projects to do and they do not include all the stuff on the "honey do list" that must be done first.
Oh, and I am guilty of starting one of the ancillary threads, but I did add that it was NTC.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Fenner
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 9:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
A post script.
Coincidentally on a Triumph car forum a similar discussion about the future produced this from a <40 years old member (who was asked for his
thoughts)
...With the greatest respect, the Forum type format is quite old fashioned and not representative of how younger people use the Internet. If we had a 'Yoof' page on the forum it simply wouldn't be used as we would be using Facebook instead. We are used to tagging each other in photo's, sharing links quickly, sending event alerts to each others smartphones and chatting live on instant messenger or writing on individual friends walls. Facebook is more accessible and more a part of everyday life on the move for people of my age...
I'm going to have a lie down now...
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 9:07 PM
To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; 'Steven Creswick'
Subject: RE: [TN] Refreshment
Whizzing through this and lots of interesting stuff. A few comments to add.
When I moved to manufacturing electronics industry from BBC in late 60s, electronics was the place to be. Everything was to be discovered. So we grew the industry, making it up as we went along. The industry was large and growing with lots of money. But it was a lot simpler too so it was possible to know your speciality and a lot of everything else as well. Networking was everything and possible.
Fast forward, the industry is mature, same as most of us. Electronics is ubiquitous and cheap. Everything has a spec and a roadmap. There is little to discover in conventional electronics except smaller faster cheaper - just squeezing the last drop of performance and cost out.
IN Europe/US the industry is now much smaller and specialised - the mainstream centre of gravity has moved away. The money and the young brains are going elsewhere. Nano, Printed electronics/display technology, bio etc.
We also have to think that most people under the age of say 40 don't find out stuff from forums, they use Facebook, instant messaging and stuff like that. So are probably under represented on TechNet.
So far as making and understanding stuff is concerned, yes it is a concern that young people today do not have the opportunities we had to make and learn. Click http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi to see one initiative to give youngsters a modern equivalent.
For myself I fixed the practical side of stuff with my 2 sons like this: As they grew to their late teens approaching driving age they were getting bored going camping/kayaking with dad. So I bought an old wreck of a Triumph Spitfire sports car and drove it on to my front lawn. Then we erected our frame tent over it, [where it stayed for the next year]. Inside the three of us took the car to bits and rebuilt it as new. When done they had learned a lot of practical skills, budgeting, mechanics, electrical stuff, project planning, patience, teamwork, how cars worked and all that stuff.
Then they learned to drive and were able to learn - some of the time anyway
- in the car they themselves had built.
This car rebuild featured heavily in their CV (resume) when time came to get a job and was useful. Now they both live and work in Africa they still benefit as they are competent bush mechanics and can fix most other stuff as well.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
Ditto the erector set activities. Could certainly learn a great deal about mechanics in general. My greatest fun came from taking TV and radios apart and/or sometimes making them work again. I remember one old TV where they must have used acid core solder on the wiring. Just touch any of the wires going to the tuner and they would fall off. Hopeless!
Big fun was finding a neon sign behind a guys shop that he was junking out.
20-30KV transformers make cool Jacob's ladders and absolute carnage as bug zappers! Never got bit!
I think the greatest instruction was having my father give me an old two barrel carb and tell me to take it apart and put it back together again [it was clean, or else my mother may have done the job that the sign transformers did not...]. I ended up with a spare jet or two the first time. The float spring and valve seemed easy though.
Nowadays, all the underhood electronics are glued and plastic welded shut and covered with elephant snot or parylene to protect the chips. It just
isn't as fun ... :-)
Good memories! Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
What an excellent post! Don't forget the old Erector sets. I learned all about electric current flow, polarity, power derating, etc., without even realizing it. I remember taking the little battery-operated motors out of toy cars and building a winch to hoist Lincoln logs. Building an electric fence for the plastic cows using the Tyco train power supply was not such a good idea, however, because my sister stepped on it and damn near electrocuted herself. After that, my playtime was monitored for awhile.
Unfortunately, kids in the 80s and 90s only learned to play computer games.
Today they can program in C++ but if they need to change a tire or replace the plug on an AC cord they're screwed.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of <Bruce Tostevin>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
Pat,
Both you and Doug make interesting points. I think to some extent, especially in electronics we've slowly become victims of our own successes at microminiaturization and automation. Most of us in the U.S. grew up with Heath, Eico and Knight kits for everything from stereo, ham and test equipment to weather stations. Allen Bradley, Mallory, JW Miller, RCA, Motorola, TI and Stancor parts all had leads and terminals that could be twisted, soldered or screwed together. If Lafayette, Radio Shack or the local electronics store didn't have the capacitors, photocells, transistors, logic devices and analog ICs you needed, there were plenty of places that would sell you $10 worth of parts - no $50 minimum PO required. In the day, even walking around a Lafayette or RS was educational. Old radios and TVs were goldmines for great useful parts. Sometimes you even got one of them working again.
Before the advent of the microprocessor driven "CHECK ENGINE" light you could mess around with carburetors, pull out the tach-dwell & timing light and actually work on and learn about the basic electronics behind an ignition system and its relationship to the timing of the engine. Hobby and trade magazines like Popular Electronics, Electronics Now, Radio-Electronics (some of which are evolutions of the same magazine under different owners), QST and the like were chock full of technical articles, Q & A columns, build-it projects and their back pages filled with suppliers selling everything from surplus military equipment to lasers.
Much of this is gone now and the early hobbyist opportunities all that infrastructure afforded gone with it. Today in the era of unmarked 0603s, 0402s, barely manageable smt solid state devices and the limited usefulness of point-point layout and wiring it's become far more difficult for a young teen to start playing around with electronics on a bench at home. While I'm certainly not advocating a return to the "good old days", it's understandable how this has in part contributed to where we find ourselves today in as, Doug wrote, trying " to capture the imagination of the youth to combat the shortage of skilled labor," and your difficulty in finding analog techs with a little experience. In some respects that early germination has been stunted by the new technologies. Nothing says, "I think there's a problem with my circuit" like overheated parts and melting wires on a proto-board, and is as rewarding as figuring out the solution.
Bruce Tostevin
Benchmark Electronics
Nashua, NH
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pat Goodyear
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
We have a couple of engineers that work with local high schools in robotics.
We are finding that finding I&C technicians that have skills to work on
analog don't exist, there are no schools. So we have been mentoring
new-hires one on one to give them some basic skills.
Most of the equipment we use was designed in the late '60s with slide rules and they try to engineer it to 6 decimal places and wonder why it won't work too that accuracy.
Before I went out 3 months ago we were trying to reverse engineer a high voltage power supply that wouldn't work as the vendor supplied it, needed to turn off with an input controlled SCR but the supply had too much leakage current to allow the SCR to fully shut off.
Analog techs are hard to come by.
pat
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Stadem, Richard D. wrote:
> Amen! Excellent post, Doug!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 3:24 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
>
> Ed,
> Ain't got a Harley (wish I did). Don't do a lot of internet surfing
> (cause I end up on YouTube and days pass before I extract myself) Beer
> drinkin' ain't nothing like college. A 12 pack is a year supply for
> me. Six months if Hillman comes over.
>
> I think a lot of it depends on how your employer views STEM
> initiatives. One of the things I really like about Rockwell Collins is
> that they encourage (to varying extents) our engineers to work with
> local schools to get the young enthusiastic about science and
> engineering. Might be FIRST Lego League, or FIRST Robotics Challenge.
> Might be the international rocket competition. Dave and I do
> something we call The Rockwell Road Show, which we do for anything
> from pre-school to college. We do 35-45 shows a year and the teachers
> tell us that it shows the kids that the stuff they see in their books
> is actually used in the real world. Dave and I are also fortunate to
> have a boss that lets us do that without worrying what time to charge
> it too. I think she knows that if Dave and I don't get out every once
> in a while to have fun like this, we would explode. Not a pretty
> sight. I understand 3M has a similar program called The Traveling
> Wizards. NASA has a treasure trove of neat information. We have to
> capture the imagination of the youth to combat the shortage of skilled
> labor.
>
> What other things could we be doing to pass along to the next
> generation? If you have chemical knowledge, volunteer to be a guest
> speaker at your high school chemistry class. Bet the teacher won't
> turn you down. There are series of fantastic chemical demonstration
> from Dr. Bassam Shakhashiri, professor emeritus of UW Madison. Be a
> guest lecturer at the local university or tech college? Many of you
> may remember Dr. John Sohn, of Bell Labs. When Lucent tanked, he took
> the early buy out, went to college for a year, and has been teaching
> high school science classes and loving every minute of it. Thinking
> of doing the same myself, provided Hillman does not talk me into
> something stupid and I die.
>
> Second, those who have been at IPC meetings know that Dave and I don't
> do any work, but we are smart enough to hire exceptionally smart
> college students as engineering co-ops. These young men and women are
> smarter than I ever remember being at that age. Such a program allows
> us to mentor the next generation and they often bring to us new
> knowledge from their courses. If your company does not have an active
> engineering co-op program, it should have. We would not accomplish a
> tenth of what we do without them. There was one semester where the
> budget would not support having co-ops, no matter how much we argued.
> Six months later, our director wondered why we had not accomplished
> much. Cuz you took away our co-ops! Are they that important? Yes,
> they are THAT important!!
>
> Does your company allow or encourage Job Shadows? We do. Let the
> guidance counselors at your local high school know you are interested
> and I bet you see a number of high school kids interested in STEM
> jobs.
> I guess my point is that there are LOTS of thing we can all be doing
> to help pass along the things we have learned to the next generation.
> But are we?
>
> Doug Pauls
>
>
>
> From: Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 08/13/2013 02:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
> Hey, now! I'm a bona fide Harley ridin', interweb surfin', beer
> drinkin' rabble rouser, even at my advanced age (<60 mind you).
> I've taken a few under my wing and watched them leave the nest and
> soar. Unfortunately, that seems to be happening less and less as time
> goes on.
> Ed Popielarski
> Engineering Manager
>
>
> 970 NE 21st Ct.
> Oak Harbor, Wa. 98277
>
> Ph: 360-675-1322
> Fx: 206-624-0965
> Cl: 949-581-6601
>
>
> https://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?hl=en&ll=48.315753,-122.643578&s
> pn=0.011188,0.033023&ctz=420&t=m&z=16&iwloc=A
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stadem, Richard D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:18 AM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Ed Popielarski
> Subject: RE: [TN] Refreshment
>
> Speak for yourself, Ed. Sounds like you have one foot in the grave
> already.
> I know many "senior" engineers who have a very high level of energy,
> have kept up with technology and science, including the 'net, and you
> could not take their laptops away from them unless you pried their
> cold dead fingers from it. They are enthusiastic, work well with folks
> from all age groups, and are eager to share their experience and
> knowledge as well as learn from the freshly recruited grads. While it
> is true that the new grads are coming online with certain skills and
> tools not known or understood by some of the older folks, they are no
> less enthusiastic and eager to solve today's problems, and they do
> their pioneering and thinking outside the box just as well as anybody,
> in fact, perhaps even more so.
> They just need the proper coaching and encouragement, and 99% of them
> are ready and willing to step up and start hitting homeruns right
> where you left off. It is up to us to help them, learn from them,
> teach them what they are willing to learn from us, and then we all
> benefit.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ed Popielarski
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:33 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Refreshment
>
> Inge,
>
> I, too, have noticed the gradual fade, and it's my opinion we,
> ourselves, are to blame. Similar to what has happened inside NASA, the
> "pioneers" that sculpted the industry are dead, dying, retired and
> tired. We as a society failed to properly backfill with fresh talent
> and the methodology of upstarting engineering grads is much different
> than "in our day". Seems to me the new generation engineers have
> developed a love affair with their desktop computers and the internet
> (something that didn't even exist when we were sprouting wings) and
> "we" collectively, are transforming to a more digital existence, as
> opposed to the hard, wet, hot physical realm. As this evolution
> proceeds, much of the pioneering spirit is lost, as well as the
> good-old-fashioned "chutzpah" to "break outside the box, damn the
> torpedoes, full speed ahead." Job preservation has become a primary
> focus and this has really retarded the craft.
>
> Just my $0.0199999 and ventilation of an issue that I've been
> containing for some time now.
>
> Ed Popielarski
> Engineering Manager
>
>
> 970 NE 21st Ct.
> Oak Harbor, Wa. 98277
>
> Ph: 360-675-1322
> Fx: 206-624-0965
> Cl: 949-581-6601
>
>
> https://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?hl=en&ll=48.315753,-122.643578&s
> pn=0.011188,0.033023&ctz=420&t=m&z=16&iwloc=A
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge Hernefjord
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 3:00 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Refreshment
>
> Technet, once a supernova...now just a fading sparkle. Time for
> renaissence (french)? Blood transfusion? Vitamin therapy? Dopamin
> cure?
> .......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, ...sorry....YYYAAAWN...
>
> Inge
>
>
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