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April 2013

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Subject:
From:
Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 16 Apr 2013 22:13:50 -0400
Content-Type:
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text/plain (185 lines)
My grandfather was a tin knocker (sheetmetal worker) and had his own shop in San Francisco (came there from NY after the 1906 earthquake to get work rebuilding heating systems).  He taught my father and he taught me - a white gas blowtorch to heat the iron (called a soldering copper).  That and sal  amoniac as the flux with 50/50 solder bars.  Drawing a good seam of solder was a skill I learned. 

A few years ago had to re-flash a roof over a bay window with a hefty soldering copper.  It was a lot of fun doing that which I hadn't done for perhaps 50 years ....

Bob  

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 16, 2013, at 6:20 PM, "Goodyear, Patrick" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Thanks Steve,   
> 
> I learned to solder as a kid by heating up a copper soldering iron my Dad had made in our forge.   It hangs on the back of my workbench as a reminder of days gone past the "TIP" is a block of copper 1X1X3" sharpened to a point, it has a 3/8" hole punched crossways on one end, through that passes a forged steel rod that is forge welded together and then into a wooden block for a handle, the whole thing is maybe a foot or so long.  
> 
> I was at the County fair when my youngest Son was in FFA, there was a blacksmith demonstration there and he was using a vacuum cleaner blower to supply the forge air and the motor died.  I took it apart and re-soldered the field windings with a copper iron, used bellows on the forge to heat the iron, he just happened to have a small chunk of copper handy, I had solder in my truck tool box but no iron, I now carry a 35 Watt pencil iron in the tool box just in case.   
> 
> And yes I can forge weld, too!   My Nephews use their Granddad's forge to make Medieval battle armor and weaponry, both belong to the Guild.   
> 
> Pat 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Butane Soldering Irons
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Those make my feet tingle just watching them ...  Wouldn't get me up there!
> 
>     Give me my shoulder and lap belts, thank-you.  
>     Makes you feel like part of something larger,
>     even when sitting out in the open.
> 
> Then, 1700 ft isn't scary!  Scary begins at 3500-5000 for me.
> 
> 
> All the more reason for Pat to use the best tool available to him.  A skilled operator can do great things, even without the best available tools!
> 
> Steve C  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Landman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:27 PM
> To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; 'Steven Creswick'
> Subject: RE: [TN] Butane Soldering Irons
> 
> Aww that's not so hard - look what these guys can do
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbEqnLjHyf8 (1768 foot tower climbing)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mozYoPICQJE
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHe3mRo4jGw
> 
> Bob L.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:58 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Butane Soldering Irons
> 
> Pat,
> 
> I prefer to be in my powered parachute at 250 ft AGL, rather than hanging on a tower ....  although at 10 kts, I would likely still be on the ground.
> 
> Sometimes you just have to use what you have to use.  It may not be ideal, but it better than nothing!
> 
> Steve C
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Goodyear, Patrick
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 11:28 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Butane Soldering Irons
> 
> Sorry for the late reply but I just got back from vacation.  
> So I have had the need to perform soldering using a butane powered soldering
> iron, wasn't ideal but it did work quite well.   Here was the scenario, 250'
> in the air on a Meteorological tower soldering a four conductor connector for an RTD onto the cable going down the tower, a 10Knot wind at 50 deg.F blowing off of the ocean 400 feet below.  No AC power available, the cordless irons ran out of battery before the joint was hot enough to get
> good wetting.   We tried a 100 watt battery operated gun and that also
> didn't work very well tip was the size of a pencil.  So out comes my butane solder torch with the medium size tip, it worked amazingly well the hard
> part was getting it lit, the wind kept blowing out the lighter.   We used a
> large paper cup as a wind screen, poked the connector in the bottom.
> Soldering with gloves on is not easy.  
> 
> I use the small butane torch quite a bit for sliver soldering, I think the melt is around 1200 deg., but I don't use the solder tips only the flame in
> that case.   
> 
> Pat    
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Fenner
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 10:12 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Butane Soldering Irons
> 
> I have a couple of these, very handy for working on my old car and odd jobs.
> The problem with them for anything serious is that the tip temperature is not well controlled. 
> 1) The heat output from the catalytic combustion heater is not calibrated; it can be set to anything. Probability is that it will end up on max, because when things don't work in soldering that's what people do.
> 2) the overall design is geared to a quick warm up, so there is little thermal mass, this will allow big temperature variation with more than one joint or if the work requires  long heat time because of its own thermal mass.
> 3) The bit is a screw on type and this gives poor thermal coupling especially after some period of use.
> The reason I have two, is that the first one had these problems in spades, the second I paid a lot more for. It is better, so I can solder up my old car wiring and stuff like that just fine. For circuit board work they make me nervous.
> Cordless irons tend also to go for a high temp, low mass, quick warm approach. 
> Need to think in terms not just of temperature but the amount of heat available. A lot of heat is not the same as a high temperature.
> 
> So overall it means you would be putting a high premium on operator skill.
> IT would be worth going to some trouble to avoid them. 
> For example low voltage irons that could run from a car battery.
> Alternatively an inverter so you could use a regular iron.
> Example: for my bush camping trips I just have a small inverter which generates 140W mains output. It's the size of a small apple and plugs in to car socket and cost about 50USD. Probably less in USA. Saves buying a separate charger for each piece of kit and doesn't become obsolete if I up grade anything.
> So one of those with a mains extension cord could do it I think.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gregg Owens
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 3:38 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Butane Soldering Irons
> 
> Since we hand solder outside of the normal manufacturing floor, our technicians are requesting to use a butane soldering iron. I have no previous experience with this type of soldering iron. With a temperature setting of 1076°F it seems rather high and potentially damaging to resulting solder connection, insulation, people, etc.
> 
> http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=0371030609
> 76
> 
> Any thoughts from experience would be most appreciated.
> 
> Gregg
> 
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