Many thx for the study material. Happy New Mayan Year!
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Creswick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 02:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
Joyce,
It used to be that the acoustic imaging device manufacturers made complete,
in-line, imaging systems for the various PEMs devices while still in the
leadframe, after molding, prior to cut, trim, and form.
I believe the process and materials have matured enough that this extensive
testing is no longer necessary.
Here are Sonix and Sonoscan's resource links for further study - depends on
just how bored you are....
Sonoscan has a great deal more papers to choose from.
http://sonix.com/resources/technical-papers
http://www.sonoscan.com/resources/publications.html
Steve Creswick
Sr Associate - Balanced Enterprise Solutions
http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevencreswick
616 834 1883
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 9:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
Many thx.
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Wenger, George M. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 08:29 PM
To: Joyce Koo; [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
Hi Joyce,
Yes we do a bake after C-SAM. I do have to admit that because we're only in
water for a couple of minutes and the PCBAs aren't subjected to a reflow
process after C-SAM we typically bake at 100C for only 10 or 15 minutes to
remove the bulk of the surface water. Most of the products we've subjected
to C-SAM do not have MENS devices. However, as I indicated our gate for
using C-SAM is that we only C-SAM products that can be subjected to an
aqueous cleaning process.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger
Senior Principal Reliability / FMA Engineer Andrew Corporation - Wireless
Network Solutions
40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 Office (732) 309-8964 Mobile
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Koo [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 8:15 PM
To: Wenger, George M.; [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
I didn't know that. Thx. I assume you do bake out after? Just curious, any
MEMS device using such a routine screen? Thx.
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Wenger, George M. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 06:18 PM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Joyce Koo
Subject: RE: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
Joyce,
I happen to agree with Steve and Richard's response and disagree with your
response. In the RF power amplifier world there are many power transistor
packages that are soldered to boards and heat sinks whose solder joints are
extremely difficult to inspect even with high kV transmission x-ray systems.
We routinely use C-SAM as an inspect/screening tool for volume production as
well as NPI pilot development. If circuit packs are not aqueous cleanable
then C-SAM would be a problem. However, when circuit packs are capable of
being aqueous cleaned putting them in water for a couple of minutes to do
C-SAM isn't an issue.
We routinely have done C-SAM imaging on lots of telecommunication circuit
packs using transducers from 15MHz to 100MHz and haven't experienced any
adverse effects.
Steve's comment about a quick call to Sonoscan by Richard's customer might
go a long way to resolving their concern. I can't speak for Sonoscan but
from what I know there are many companies who by their C-SAM equipment as a
screening tool and not as an FA tool.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger
Senior Principal Reliability / FMA Engineer Andrew Corporation - Wireless
Network Solutions
40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 Office (732) 309-8964 Mobile
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
C-SAM is FA tool, not screening tool. Parts got wet and defined delam or
not during the test. You can not re-use the part. Although it is called
non-destructive, but definitely, not a screening tool on my book. If you
are looking for wire open or short (assume you have done X-ray, found
nothing), dry "squid" may be better. Again. Not screening tool, but a FA
tool. If they don't like ultrasound, and have deep pocket $.
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Creswick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 02:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
Richard,
If there is no cavity around the wires, there should be no issue - period!
I suggest that they are drawing inappropriate conclusions.
I absolutely agree that ultrasonic cleaning of sealed, cavity style
components can be catastrophic, but you appear to be speaking of a PEMs
device.
Now then, if there were an air gap in your package, the u/s signal would be
blocked, and you would see nothing on your acoustic image... unless, you
could turn it over and scan from the other side. Therefore, I doubt that
you have a cavity style device - but you could surprise us :-)
I had an acoustic microscope from 'the other guys', and would use
transducers of quite tightly fixed frequency, depending on what was being
scanned. Higher frequency for thin parts, greater resolution. Lower freq
for penetration, but not necessary fantastic resolution. I forget what my
low freq transducer was 30, or 80 MHz .... The highs were in the hundreds
of MHz. A quickie call to Sonoscan could tell you what frequency they would
use for your device and one could calculate the wavelength and make a
reasonable guess if this would set up harmonics in the wires. My guess is
the freqs are way too high, but one could check.
Maybe you will convince them easily and the New Year will start out well!
Best regards,
Steve Creswick
Sr Associate - Balanced Enterprise Solutions
http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevencreswick
616 834 1883
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 1:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Susceptibility of electronics to C-SAM
I have a good understanding of the effects of damage that can be caused by
cavitation when cleaning electronics using ultrasonic wash with the wrong
sweep frequency, but does anyone know if ultrasonic energy from C-SAM
analysis can cause damage to electronics? I recently had a customer object
when I suggested using Sonoscan to inspect some components for die bond
issues, and he said that he had heard ultrasonics could damage electronics.
I explained to him that while that was possibly true of ultrasonic cleaning
(if not done properly), I had never heard of C-SAM harming electronics.
Anyone have any experience with damage caused by C-SAM inspection?
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