Bob,
Hands-on? You bet. But it's years ago. The first one, I bought it via
telephone and got it on the airport, installed it myself next day and after
some HOURS we soldered series products. This was a small machine, nearly
identical to Asscon VP450. They were ICL at that time. I have been more ore
less involved in even big inline macines. Fairly simple machines: a
reservoir, a big 'teapot', heaters with its regulators, a elevator, water
pipes for the cooling zones and a computer.
Inge

On 5 December 2012 21:37, Robert Kondner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Inge,
>
>  On the VPSsubject  your comments echo what I have heard.
>
>  Did you get some actual hands on time for experimentation? If so what
> machine?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 3:09 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Termination finishes, Cu thickness under Ag, Au-Pt-Pd
>
> Hi Inge!
>
> Welcome back ol' buddy! I for one, have missed you here! Wish we could get
> Paul to drop in once in a while. But I know that will be unlikely.
>
> Me a bagpipe blower? You have got to be kidding me! I don't even know how
> to
> hold one of them things much less play one! They look kinda' creepy to
> me...like an octopus or something. But when I hear "Amazing Grace" being
> played on bagpipes, my heart pounds and I get goose bumps.
>
> I've not faded away, I'm still here, just don't have as much to talk about
> as I used to. Anyways, this group has never been about any one person, it's
> always been about all of us. Some have been here longer than others, but
> what has made this email forum as solid and long lasting as it has been,
> has
> been the contributions from everyone in this group. I hope that this will
> continue.
>
> I'm dealing with what I guess you could call a "speed-bump" in my life's
> road right now, but I plan on being here for a long time...
>
> Again, welcome back!
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Inge Hernefjord
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:55 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Termination finishes, Cu thickness under Ag, Au-Pt-Pd
>
> Hi Wayne & collegues,
>
> heard from Joyce that you missed my comments. Sorry for that. When Steve
> Gregory faded away as kind of bagpipe blower in the TN brigade, I lost some
> contact with the troops march and became last one and with time I saw the
> troops at distance. Well, with  my old legs, seems as I have to get lift
> with a jeep and catch up with you.
>
> On the theme you just discuss with Julie, I'd say to her not to mix with
> changing the component finish immediately. Doing such things can end in a
> never-ending-process. I am not updated with what is actually going on, so
> my
> advice may not be of any help, but there is one soldering method that have
> a
> very generous process window and that is VPS, Vapour Phase Soldering. It
> has
> some very attractive advantages, like instant and simultaneous heating,
> extremly low Oxygen presence and is very fast. All properties that makes
> even many poor weldable>acceptable weldable. You may not be able to try
> this, of some reason. Just wanted to put up a finger and feel the wind
> direction
>
> Inge
>
> On 5 December 2012 00:41, Thayer, Wayne - IS
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
> > Hi Julie-
> >
> > Sorry for the late response.  I have a lot of experience with this or
> > similar material.  Yes, burnishing helps.  I also deliberately use an
> > iron tip that doesn't wet well.  Paste with SMT works too, and is more
> > controllable.  We typically used the SnPbAg alloy with about 2%Ag, but
> > I don't know if that helped.  Our rule of thumb was you got three
> > shots to solder to it, IF you used pre-heat and were very careful.
> > BUT, this product is cake to solder to compared with AgPd, which most
> > of the thick film commercial products used.  That stuff would only
> > survive a very carefully controlled single reflow.
> >
> > One thing we learned is that the leach rate SKYROCKETS if the designer
> > put the PtPdAu directly on top of thick film Au where the solder was
> > going to be.  That recipe leaches just as bad as plain gold.  The
> > overlap MUST be behind a solder dam.  (The thick film vendors only
> > tell you this AFTER you figure it out on your own!)  By the way, plain
> > gold solders just fine on ceramic using SnAu eutectic solder.  It is
> > very expensive and is quite hot (270C or so).  The joints are very pretty
> shiny silver and very strong.
> >  You can also weld copper wires to thick film gold or silver.
> > MiniCircuits
> > sells piles of RF parts containing tiny transformers attached this
> > way, and this technique is also used on RF inductors which are wound
> > on an alumina mandrel.
> >
> > We ended up having a low temperature copper put on top of the gold
> > whenever we could.  It is much more robust--still wets horribly though!
> >
> > Wayne Thayer
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steven Creswick
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 8:59 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Termination finishes, Cu thickness under Ag,
> > Au-Pt-Pd
> >
> > Julie,
> >
> > Yes, the addition of a small amount of Pt does slow up the rate of the
> > conductors leaching into the solder.  From practical experience, the
> > more Pt is added, the better the leach resistance.  However, the more
> > Pt is added, the greater are wetting problems.
> >
> > Thick film ink suppliers [used to] offer inks with different amounts
> > of Pt so you could slightly 'chose your poison.'
> >
> > Also can depend on whether it is a fritted, or a frit-less, system.
> >
> > Like Mike says - BURNISH before solder IS the general rule!
> >
> > Never was something you really 'wanted' to solder to, unless you had
> > no other choice.
> >
> >
> > Steve Creswick
> > Sr Associate - Balanced Enterprise Solutions
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevencreswick
> >                          616 834 1883
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julie Silk
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:02 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Termination finishes, Cu thickness under Ag,
> > Au-Pt-Pd
> >
> > The claim of the supplier is that the Pt prevents the Au from
> > dissolving into the solder.  Hmmm.  Can anyone back that up?
> > The recent info on this is that it's looking like a wettability
> > problem more than a dissolving-into-the-joint problem, although
> > neither is confirmed.
> >
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