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July 2012

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Subject:
From:
John Anselmo <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, John Anselmo <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 10 Jul 2012 08:38:30 -0600
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (272 lines)
Burndy makes hand crimp tools for wire sizes greater than 12 awg.
www.burndy.com

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Collins
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

For hand crimping?  We don't do anything like that.  We have the
pneumatic tool you can see in the upper left in the web page photo, we
do up to 00 gage with it.  I'm not aware of any hand tools that are mil
spec quality that would do the heavy stuff (but I have not gone looking
for them either).  

The pneumatic tool is great.

regards,
 - Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Kondner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 11:07 AM
To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; Collins, Graham (FN) @ PRG - ESI
Subject: RE: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

Graham,

  Thanks for the link. I went through their catalog, I didn't see
anything for wire size greater than #12.

 Are you sure they have something? We are talking about a LOT of force
here.
I wonder if hand operated is really possible?

Thanks,
Bob K.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Collins
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:50 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

Hi Bob
Big crimp tools - Astro: http://www.astrotool.com/

regards,
 - Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Kondner
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

Phil,

  I tend to agree that soldering crimp connections is not a good idea.
It makes the connection stiff and concentrates flexing to a smaller
area.

 Now this might be pure Hog Wash but I do not think that a crimp is not
as "Air Tight" as solder. I did see a crimp fail near a farm silo
system, plenty of bad NO2 and sulfur compounds. (These were #14 AWG
stranded wires.) The wires were corroded and the terminal overheated. 

 I have recently been playing with some # 4AWG cables with crimped 3/8
inch ring terminals. These are constructed from a large number of fine
strands as to leave the cable flexible. Something so large seems to
defeat the ability to apply the high pressures required to form cold
welds. When you flex the cable near the terminal you can see some of the
fine strands move.

Does anyone have experience and/or vendor names for very large
crimmpers?

Thanks,
Bob K



-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Nutting
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

If you want to introduce unreliability into your system, then by all
means solder the crimped connections.

Many years ago I fought this battle, and won, with the aid of a document
from Amp.  I think Steve Gregory posted it on his Homestead web site.

The theory is that with a properly sized wire/crimp combination you form
a gas tight mechanical weld.  Adding solder creates a stiff failure
point where the solder ends and the unsoldered wire begins.

The one exception we have is for Litz wire.  This is wire comprised of
many small strands of enamel insulated wire that must be stripped to
make a connection.  Chemical stripping is one solution, but the added
problems of removing 100% of the stripping chemical and chemical hazards
make this a non-preferred solution.  Instead we tin the wire ends in a
solder pot that burns off all the enamel and nylon serve (thread
"jacket").  And yes, we do get failures with this method on the smaller
gauge wires (26-34 gauge) if we flex them too many times.  Typically
these wires are only used in inductors, chokes or transformers where the
wires are terminated and no longer see flexing once terminated.  For the
larger 10 AWG Litz, once tinned, it might as well be steel for the
stiffness it develops.

Phil Nutting
Design for Manufacturing Engineer
Kaiser Systems, Inc.



-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Collins
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:27 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

Excellent article!  In the sailboat world the myth of soldering crimped
connections is healthy and thriving, it drives me nuts.  But that is
what you get with a large DIY crowd and some dockside "experts"...

Thanks Steve.

regards,
 - Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

John,

After looking around a bit, you really shouldn't solder a crimped
connection, you could very well be compromising the crimp itself, and
cause more problems than if you just left the crimp alone (assuming it
was a proper crimp to begin with). Here's a article from Jim Dunbar a
Product Manager for Terminals and Splices, and Senior Product Engineer
Tom Michielutti of Tyco that spells it out:

http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/tyco/ET.pdf

Look down at the bottom of page 4...

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Gregory
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 6:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

John,

I always thought that you didn't solder a crimped connection. But if
this is a requirement, then probably the best way to go about this is to
get yourself an American Beauty...

An American Beauty Resistance soldering unit that is, a model 10577
ought to do the trick:

https://www.americanbeautytools.com/site/models/rs/109/features

There's even a Youtube video of it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7vNQki7UgQ&feature=relmfu

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: John Anselmo
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Crimp/Solder Lugs for DLO 535 MCM Cable

Ok, we need to solder the lugs (after crimping) for a 535MCM DLO Cable.

What's the easiest way to do this?



Thanks,



John




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