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March 2012

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Subject:
From:
Douglas Pauls <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date:
Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:19:43 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
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Ooooooooooooooo, and there is one in Oxfordshire.  I owe  you one Ian. 
Thanks

Doug Pauls



From:   "Fox, Ian" <[log in to unmask]>
To:     TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, 
"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:   03/28/2012 10:40 AM
Subject:        RE: [TN] Rework Concern and Question



Doug, you are looking in the wrong places. Next time try Asda (owned by 
walmart) they do mt. dew. I hate to see a man suffer.............

Regards
Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: 28 March 2012 14:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Ohhhhh, I can tell you from experience there is no Mt Dew or Diet Mt. Dew 
in the UK.  I go into withdrawal every time I go there.  Last time I came 
back through the Detroit Airport, the lady in the convenience shop said 
she had never seen someone so happy to find a bottle of Diet Mt. Dew. "Did 

you just get back from the UK?"   Hilarious.

Doug Pauls



From:   Joyce Koo <[log in to unmask]>
To:     <[log in to unmask]>
Date:   03/28/2012 07:57 AM
Subject:        Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question
Sent by:        TechNet <[log in to unmask]>



Depend upon which country, cross the boarder you don't have that much real 
"stuff" in it.  (not sure about UK.  It might be the same, since we both 
got Queen on our coins). 

Joyce Koo
Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab Research In Motion 
Limited
Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
Mobile: (226) 220-4760

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenger, George M.
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:53 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Mountain Dew also works for some people I know (one in particular)

Regards,
George
George M. Wenger
Senior Principal Reliability / FMA Engineer Andrew Corporation - Wireless 
Network Solutions 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 Office (732) 309-8964 Mobile
E-mail: [log in to unmask]

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stewart McCracken
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Oops, just noticed a couple of good typo's in my previous post!
Should be keV and not kV throughout and Sn La1 peak is at 3.44keV not 
1.74kV!
Other than that - perfect, the lesson here - more coffee before morning 
e-mails....

(and its probably still an escape peak rather than a real Si peak!)

Stewart

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stewart McCracken
Sent: 28 March 2012 09:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Hi Folks,

Following some of the previous posts, I believe that the "Si" peak which 
is being "detected" during EDX, is not a Si peak at all!
There is a very good chance that what the system is showing is an artefact 
of the EDX system know as an "escape peak". In this case, a small "false" 
peak occurs at 1.74kV below strongest peak (which in this case will be Sn
La1 at 1.74kV), giving you what appears as a peak at around 1.7kV which is 
around the same as the Si Ka peak 1.74kV).
Bottom line is that the "Si" peak which is being described is most likely 
an EDX artefact and not a Si peak at all!

Kind regards,

Stewart


Stewart McCracken
MCS Ltd.
Centre House
Midlothian Innovation Centre
Roslin
Midlothian
EH25 9RE
U.K.

t. +44 (0)131 440 9090
m. +44(0)7711 541735
e. [log in to unmask]
w. www.themcsgroup.co.uk




-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Fenner
Sent: 28 March 2012 00:30
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

I sincerely doubt any Si in the solder, Probably the Si you are seeing is 
from silica filler in the device body or something like that.
So what is happening to stop solder re-melting?
Possibly if the device leads are copper then with extended heating the Cu 
can dissolve into the near pure Sn solder and drive the liquidus up - and 
the longer you heat the greater the Cu dissolution and the higher the MP.
You are probably dissolving out the PCB pad/through hole barrel as well.
The Cu/Sn phase diagram looks like a tick or check mark. The short Sn down 
stroke side is from 232 to low point of 227 and the Cu up stroke side is 
near vertical to MP of Cu somewhere over 1000C, so you get a very rapid 
temp increase for small compositional change.

Suggest try come in with a hot iron (more than 700) to melt out the 
existing composition quickly or flush with more solder to add tin to the 
mix and depress MP.  Or both.


Regards

Mike Fenner
Bonding Services & Products
T: +44 [0] 1865 522 663 E: [log in to unmask]



-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

I think, but am not sure, that you are attempting to remove a new 
component whose leads are FINISHED (not soldered) with SAC305 solder, and 
that is why you measure Sn98 on the parts straight out of the tape (I am 
going to disregard the SEM analysis of 2% silicon for a moment).

Secondly, the new parts were probably soldered to the PWB with SAC305 
solder as well, and that is why when you attempt to unsolder them or bring 
them into liquidus, you are having more difficulty than you did with the 
old parts.

Not only were the old parts finished with Sn63 solder, but they were also 
soldered in place with Sn63 solder.
The new parts are meant to be RoHS compliant, and apparently they are, 
with a Sn level of 98%, and no Pb in sight on the SEM diagram. If that 
were the only change, you should notice no difference in the ability to 
remove the part if they were, in fact, soldered to the PWB with Sn63; the 
plating change alone would not make any noticeable difference.

Soldering them to the PWB with lead-free SAC305 alloy would make a huge 
difference in your ability to unsolder and remove the part, no matter what 
finish was used to plate the part.

Silicon will not break down and become part of an alloy under 1000 deg. C.
The 2% SEM pickup is probably silicon chips or dust from the component 
body.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenger, George M.
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Dave Hillman,

With your metallurgical background you might be a better person than I to 
make a comment.  I'm not sure I've even had or seen an occasion where 
something dissolved in the bulk solder and increased the 
melting/solidification temperature.  Yes I've seen the leading edge of 
solder as it flows and wets a surface dissolve metallization and freeze 
because the local meting temperature changed but I've never seen that 
happen to the bulk of a solder joint

Regards,
George
George M. Wenger
Senior Principal Reliability / FMA Engineer Andrew Corporation - Wireless 
Network Solutions 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 Office (732) 309-8964 Mobile
E-mail: [log in to unmask]


-----Original Message-----
From: Leland Woodall [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:14 PM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Wenger, George M.
Subject: RE: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

George,

It's been a long day, and maybe I'm not making myself too clear.

We're not being able to achieve a liquidus state with a 700 degree F 
soldering iron.  We're not trying to melt the lead, just the solder that's 

holding it to the PCB.  We're not accomplishing that with the new 
component, so I'm thinking something has mixed with the solder joint and 
has raised the resultant reflow temperature.

Leland

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenger, George M.
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Leland,

Am I missing something?  I don't think it really matter that the lead base 

material or lead surface finish is.  What matters is the solder used to 
attach the lead to the board.  When you desolder a lead you don't melt the 

lead you melt the solder.

Regards,
George
George M. Wenger
Senior Principal Reliability / FMA Engineer Andrew Corporation - Wireless 
Network Solutions
40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 Office (732) 309-8964 Mobile
E-mail: [log in to unmask]

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David D. Hillman
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:05 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Hi Leland - I recommend you find out the lead base metal composition. If 
you shot an SEM-EDS of the lead toe, you could be getting the Si from the 
base metal composition and not part of the solder alloy composition.

Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]



Leland Woodall <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet 
<[log in to unmask]>
03/27/2012 02:52 PM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Leland Woodall 
<[log in to unmask]>


To
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cc

Subject
Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question






Vladimir,

We analyzed raw components straight out of the tape and reel packaging.
The site selection was on the bottom side of the leads at the toe.

Leland

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of vladimir Igoshev
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Sorry Ben, it doesn't.
Leland,

What you are saying sounds strange. What does it mean: "We've analyzed the 

lead material beneath the SEM and it returns 98% tin and 2% silicone"? Did 

you analyzed leads or solder? Where the analysis was taken from? Did you 
analyzed leads with pads ripped off?

Regards,

Vladimir

SENTEC Testing Laboratory Inc.
11 Canadian Road, Unit 7.
Scarborough, ON M1R 5G1
Tel: (416) 899-1882
Fax: (905) 882-8812
www.sentec.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: "Gumpert, Ben" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:58:21
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>,
        "Gumpert, Ben"
        <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Leland,

I won't claim to be an expert, but this website seems to imply something 
along those lines.
http://resource.npl.co.uk/mtdata/phdiagrams/sisn.htm

Ben

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Leland Woodall
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:18 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: EXTERNAL: [TN] Rework Concern and Question

Folks,

We've ran across a strange incident and I'd like a little advice from the 
group.

We recently underwent a component vendor change, and part of the first 
group of boards were misbuilt due to incorrect polarity (the part marking 
was misinterpreted by the vision operator).

Anyway, an attempt to remove the part by our Repair group resulted in 
lifted pads on 10 of the first 12 boards.  We've analyzed the lead 
material beneath the SEM and it returns 98% tin and 2% silicone.  The old 
style component comes off quite easily (within 3 seconds), and an analysis 

of its leads shows to be 100% tin.  It's a 6 pin diode with very little 
mass.

What's going on here?  Does a 2% silicone mix raise the melting point of 
solder by 200 degrees C?

Please help me understand.

Thanks,

Leland

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