Thanks for the publicity, Bob! I emphasise that this is unsolicited.
Brian
On 26/01/2012 03:11, Robert Kondner wrote:
> I bought a hard copy last week. It came in yesterday.
>
> Very good book, an absolute must.
>
> Better than coffee at getting the brain working. Try it!
>
> Bob K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:53 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
> HISTORY FIRST
>
> Wait. I thought the hardcopy sold out. Are you re-print to a new ed?
>
> Joyce Koo
> Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab Research In Motion Limited
> Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
> Mobile: (226) 220-4760
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:15 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
> HISTORY FIRST
>
> " 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature,"
>
> Dammit, I wrote it!!! http://www.bnellis.eu/book/ (SOPA-permitted!)
>
> Brian
>
> On 25/01/2012 18:18, Paul Edwards wrote:
>> Brian,
>>
>> 1. Cl- and F- essentially develop ion water groups that remove water
> molecules from the bulk available to solubilize ionic and polar molecules...
>>
>> 2. Technically you are correct however most open loop cleaning systems are
> either a wash then dry or a wash, rinse (with a different water source)
> then dry system... For a wash then dry system, unconditioned water maybe
> insufficient to adequately do the job. We don't use a wash only system.
>>
>> 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature, that's why we use
> a solution wash, first rinse of ~1-2M water and a final rinse of 8M to 18M.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul Edwards
>> Process/Quality Engineering
>> Surface Art Engineering
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:19 AM
>> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Paul Edwards
>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND
>> FACTS& HISTORY FIRST
>>
>> I don't wholly agree for three reasons:
>> 1. Cl- and F- anions are generally pretty soluble and saturation in
>> tap water is extremely unlikely 2. In my original intervention, I said
>> that tap water is usually OK for WASHING (which was the original
>> question) but not necessarily for RINSING and if DI water is used for
>> rinsing, then any remaining anions (or cations) would be removed, in
>> the unlikely event of saturation happening 3. The surface tension of
>> DI water is about 72 dyne.cm whereas most tap water is usually about
>> 30 dyne.cm. This means that washing with DI water is more likely to
>> NOT penetrate under components and in other interstices.
>>
>> That having been said, I don't say that WASHING in tap, softened or DI
>> water will make any significant difference in at least 99 out of 100
>> cases, assuming, as I said before, there is no incompatibility with
>> additives and that the water is reasonable in quality. I may draw the
>> line at polluted river water, though, although I have never seen this
>> in real life. The question is whether tap water is OK for the final
>> rinse(s) and there I'll plagiarise Doug with an "It depends". I have
>> seen many cases where it was fine and many where it was catastrophic.
>> Qualification is necessary in all cases (I have also seen many cases
>> where the final rinse in DI water was catastrophic, as well!).
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On 24/01/2012 20:23, Paul Edwards wrote:
>>> Joyce,
>>>
>>> Di water would be better because it more typically readily absorbs more
> and weaker positively and negatively charged ionics then city water...
>>>
>>> When the city water has been loaded with Cl and F compounds then the
> ionic absorption balance changes...
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Paul Edwards
>>> Process/Quality Engineering
>>> Surface Art Engineering
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:33 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
> HISTORY FIRST
>>>
>>> Brian,
>>> Can you kindly refresh my memory: why DI washing is better than city
> water? (don't ask me why I need to know. I just need expert voice). Many
> thanks (buy you a glass of wine when we meet).
>>>
>>> Joyce Koo
>>> Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab Research In Motion
>>> Limited
>>> Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
>>> Mobile: (226) 220-4760
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
> HISTORY FIRST
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but I've worked in China on cleaning/drying problems and
>>> OD solvent replacement. I can assure you that most of the numerous
>>> shops there use exactly the same types of equipment and techniques as
>>> are used in developed countries, sometimes even better.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On 24/01/2012 17:10, Robert Kondner wrote:
>>>> When it comes to selecting someone to help analyze a company's processes
> I will take the "Fresh Out of School" MBA over an experienced electronic
> technician any day.
>>>>
>>>> When I asked about rinsing in tap water followed with a water blow
> off so many folks said "Must Use DI" without even considering an analysis. A
> fresh out of school MBA might think about it longer. Hmmm I think I will pay
> them more money.
>>>>
>>>> What would they do in China? Put in a DI system of blow off tap
> water with an air gun? Hmmm, sounds like China knows the value of a dollar!
>>>>
>>>> Bob K.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:18 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
> HISTORY FIRST
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be two types of MBAs. Those that start with an undergrad
> degree and get their MBA as they, and those that get their MBAs before
> entering the real world. The problem came in the 80's, when every company
> wanted to hire those freshly minted MBAs right out of school. About the
> same time that share price became the only barometer. So began a cycle of
> formulatic answers because the textbook said so. Profits temporarily down?
> Reduce the workforce. Wnat more profits? Send it to China. The MBAs with
> real experience knew better, wouldn't go for the instant gratification
> ideas, so they aren't the ones who got promoted to positions to make
> significant business decisions. Part of the reason American companies seem
> to be stuck in a ditch is because we're now starting to see the long term
> effects of short term efforts to prop up that share price.
>>>>
>>>> I could show rather convincingly how moving some R&D workforce to China
> because they bill 1/3 is costing us twice as much, and losing us market
> share. But I don't have the right letters after my name, I don't get to go
> to those meetings.
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
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