Thanks for the publicity, Inge! I emphasise that this is unsolicited.

Brian

On 26/01/2012 09:32, Inge wrote:
> I have Brian's book since many years. It's little unique, because of
> some humoristic infiltration. And there is little or no nonsence and no
> repetitions to fill the pages, like a doctorand's dissertation.
>
> Let me say a few words about this book. If you have it and read it and
> do as you once did at school, i.e. make underlines and write comments
> and put in some flags for fast finding, then I promis you: you have
> enough knowhow to start a small industry yourself, because it's not
> solely about contaminations, but describes a lot of circumstance around
> the word contamination. What could been told with a dozen words has been
> one very interesting page. I've done several underlines, like this one,
> that also is constantly in my mind: Page 126
>
> " about removing flux residues: neither solvents by themselves nor water
> by itself can remove completely all the products and by-products
> resulting from any kind of flux ".
>
> And on the same page, there is a marvellous organigram of contamination
> due to soldering processes.
>
> I recommend all processing engineers to have one copy on the desk.
>
> Inge
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Ellis" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
> HISTORY FIRST
>
>
>> " 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature,"
>>
>> Dammit, I wrote it!!! http://www.bnellis.eu/book/ (SOPA-permitted!)
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On 25/01/2012 18:18, Paul Edwards wrote:
>>> Brian,
>>>
>>> 1. Cl- and F- essentially develop ion water groups that remove water
>>> molecules from the bulk available to solubilize ionic and polar
>>> molecules...
>>>
>>> 2. Technically you are correct however most open loop cleaning
>>> systems are either a wash then dry or a wash, rinse (with a different
>>> water source) then dry system... For a wash then dry system,
>>> unconditioned water maybe insufficient to adequately do the job. We
>>> don't use a wash only system.
>>>
>>> 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature, that's why
>>> we use a solution wash, first rinse of ~1-2M water and a final rinse
>>> of 8M to 18M.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Paul Edwards
>>> Process/Quality Engineering
>>> Surface Art Engineering
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:19 AM
>>> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Paul Edwards
>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND
>>> FACTS& HISTORY FIRST
>>>
>>> I don't wholly agree for three reasons:
>>> 1. Cl- and F- anions are generally pretty soluble and saturation in tap
>>> water is extremely unlikely
>>> 2. In my original intervention, I said that tap water is usually OK for
>>> WASHING (which was the original question) but not necessarily for
>>> RINSING and if DI water is used for rinsing, then any remaining anions
>>> (or cations) would be removed, in the unlikely event of saturation
>>> happening
>>> 3. The surface tension of DI water is about 72 dyne.cm whereas most tap
>>> water is usually about 30 dyne.cm. This means that washing with DI water
>>> is more likely to NOT penetrate under components and in other
>>> interstices.
>>>
>>> That having been said, I don't say that WASHING in tap, softened or DI
>>> water will make any significant difference in at least 99 out of 100
>>> cases, assuming, as I said before, there is no incompatibility with
>>> additives and that the water is reasonable in quality. I may draw the
>>> line at polluted river water, though, although I have never seen this in
>>> real life. The question is whether tap water is OK for the final
>>> rinse(s) and there I'll plagiarise Doug with an "It depends". I have
>>> seen many cases where it was fine and many where it was catastrophic.
>>> Qualification is necessary in all cases (I have also seen many cases
>>> where the final rinse in DI water was catastrophic, as well!).
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On 24/01/2012 20:23, Paul Edwards wrote:
>>>> Joyce,
>>>>
>>>> Di water would be better because it more typically readily absorbs
>>>> more and weaker positively and negatively charged ionics then city
>>>> water...
>>>>
>>>> When the city water has been loaded with Cl and F compounds then the
>>>> ionic absorption balance changes...
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Paul Edwards
>>>> Process/Quality Engineering
>>>> Surface Art Engineering
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:33 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND
>>>> FACTS& HISTORY FIRST
>>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>> Can you kindly refresh my memory: why DI washing is better than city
>>>> water? (don't ask me why I need to know. I just need expert voice).
>>>> Many thanks (buy you a glass of wine when we meet).
>>>>
>>>> Joyce Koo
>>>> Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab
>>>> Research In Motion Limited
>>>> Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
>>>> Mobile: (226) 220-4760
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND
>>>> FACTS& HISTORY FIRST
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, but I've worked in China on cleaning/drying problems and OD
>>>> solvent replacement. I can assure you that most of the numerous shops
>>>> there use exactly the same types of equipment and techniques as are
>>>> used
>>>> in developed countries, sometimes even better.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> On 24/01/2012 17:10, Robert Kondner wrote:
>>>>> When it comes to selecting someone to help analyze a company's
>>>>> processes I will take the "Fresh Out of School" MBA over an
>>>>> experienced electronic technician any day.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I asked about rinsing in tap water followed with a water blow
>>>>> off so many folks said "Must Use DI" without even considering an
>>>>> analysis. A fresh out of school MBA might think about it longer.
>>>>> Hmmm I think I will pay them more money.
>>>>>
>>>>> What would they do in China? Put in a DI system of blow off tap
>>>>> water with an air gun? Hmmm, sounds like China knows the value of a
>>>>> dollar!
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob K.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:18 AM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND
>>>>> FACTS& HISTORY FIRST
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be two types of MBAs. Those that start with an
>>>>> undergrad degree and get their MBA as they, and those that get
>>>>> their MBAs before entering the real world. The problem came in the
>>>>> 80's, when every company wanted to hire those freshly minted MBAs
>>>>> right out of school. About the same time that share price became
>>>>> the only barometer. So began a cycle of formulatic answers because
>>>>> the textbook said so. Profits temporarily down? Reduce the
>>>>> workforce. Wnat more profits? Send it to China. The MBAs with real
>>>>> experience knew better, wouldn't go for the instant gratification
>>>>> ideas, so they aren't the ones who got promoted to positions to
>>>>> make significant business decisions. Part of the reason American
>>>>> companies seem to be stuck in a ditch is because we're now starting
>>>>> to see the long term effects of short term efforts to prop up that
>>>>> share price.
>>>>>
>>>>> I could show rather convincingly how moving some R&D workforce to
>>>>> China because they bill 1/3 is costing us twice as much, and losing
>>>>> us market share. But I don't have the right letters after my name,
>>>>> I don't get to go to those meetings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete
>>>>>
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