I have Brian's book since many years. It's little unique, because of some
humoristic infiltration. And there is little or no nonsence and no
repetitions to fill the pages, like a doctorand's dissertation.
Let me say a few words about this book. If you have it and read it and do as
you once did at school, i.e. make underlines and write comments and put in
some flags for fast finding, then I promis you: you have enough knowhow to
start a small industry yourself, because it's not solely about
contaminations, but describes a lot of circumstance around the word
contamination. What could been told with a dozen words has been one very
interesting page. I've done several underlines, like this one, that also is
constantly in my mind: Page 126
" about removing flux residues: neither solvents by themselves nor water by
itself can remove completely all the products and by-products resulting from
any kind of flux ".
And on the same page, there is a marvellous organigram of contamination due
to soldering processes.
I recommend all processing engineers to have one copy on the desk.
Inge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Ellis" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
>" 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature,"
>
> Dammit, I wrote it!!! http://www.bnellis.eu/book/ (SOPA-permitted!)
>
> Brian
>
> On 25/01/2012 18:18, Paul Edwards wrote:
>> Brian,
>>
>> 1. Cl- and F- essentially develop ion water groups that remove water
>> molecules from the bulk available to solubilize ionic and polar
>> molecules...
>>
>> 2. Technically you are correct however most open loop cleaning systems
>> are either a wash then dry or a wash, rinse (with a different water
>> source) then dry system... For a wash then dry system, unconditioned
>> water maybe insufficient to adequately do the job. We don't use a wash
>> only system.
>>
>> 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature, that's why we
>> use a solution wash, first rinse of ~1-2M water and a final rinse of 8M
>> to 18M.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul Edwards
>> Process/Quality Engineering
>> Surface Art Engineering
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:19 AM
>> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Paul Edwards
>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
>> HISTORY FIRST
>>
>> I don't wholly agree for three reasons:
>> 1. Cl- and F- anions are generally pretty soluble and saturation in tap
>> water is extremely unlikely
>> 2. In my original intervention, I said that tap water is usually OK for
>> WASHING (which was the original question) but not necessarily for
>> RINSING and if DI water is used for rinsing, then any remaining anions
>> (or cations) would be removed, in the unlikely event of saturation
>> happening
>> 3. The surface tension of DI water is about 72 dyne.cm whereas most tap
>> water is usually about 30 dyne.cm. This means that washing with DI water
>> is more likely to NOT penetrate under components and in other
>> interstices.
>>
>> That having been said, I don't say that WASHING in tap, softened or DI
>> water will make any significant difference in at least 99 out of 100
>> cases, assuming, as I said before, there is no incompatibility with
>> additives and that the water is reasonable in quality. I may draw the
>> line at polluted river water, though, although I have never seen this in
>> real life. The question is whether tap water is OK for the final
>> rinse(s) and there I'll plagiarise Doug with an "It depends". I have
>> seen many cases where it was fine and many where it was catastrophic.
>> Qualification is necessary in all cases (I have also seen many cases
>> where the final rinse in DI water was catastrophic, as well!).
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On 24/01/2012 20:23, Paul Edwards wrote:
>>> Joyce,
>>>
>>> Di water would be better because it more typically readily absorbs more
>>> and weaker positively and negatively charged ionics then city water...
>>>
>>> When the city water has been loaded with Cl and F compounds then the
>>> ionic absorption balance changes...
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Paul Edwards
>>> Process/Quality Engineering
>>> Surface Art Engineering
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:33 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
>>> HISTORY FIRST
>>>
>>> Brian,
>>> Can you kindly refresh my memory: why DI washing is better than city
>>> water? (don't ask me why I need to know. I just need expert voice).
>>> Many thanks (buy you a glass of wine when we meet).
>>>
>>> Joyce Koo
>>> Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab
>>> Research In Motion Limited
>>> Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
>>> Mobile: (226) 220-4760
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
>>> HISTORY FIRST
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but I've worked in China on cleaning/drying problems and OD
>>> solvent replacement. I can assure you that most of the numerous shops
>>> there use exactly the same types of equipment and techniques as are used
>>> in developed countries, sometimes even better.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On 24/01/2012 17:10, Robert Kondner wrote:
>>>> When it comes to selecting someone to help analyze a company's
>>>> processes I will take the "Fresh Out of School" MBA over an experienced
>>>> electronic technician any day.
>>>>
>>>> When I asked about rinsing in tap water followed with a water blow
>>>> off so many folks said "Must Use DI" without even considering an
>>>> analysis. A fresh out of school MBA might think about it longer. Hmmm I
>>>> think I will pay them more money.
>>>>
>>>> What would they do in China? Put in a DI system of blow off tap
>>>> water with an air gun? Hmmm, sounds like China knows the value of a
>>>> dollar!
>>>>
>>>> Bob K.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:18 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
>>>> HISTORY FIRST
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be two types of MBAs. Those that start with an
>>>> undergrad degree and get their MBA as they, and those that get their
>>>> MBAs before entering the real world. The problem came in the 80's,
>>>> when every company wanted to hire those freshly minted MBAs right out
>>>> of school. About the same time that share price became the only
>>>> barometer. So began a cycle of formulatic answers because the
>>>> textbook said so. Profits temporarily down? Reduce the workforce.
>>>> Wnat more profits? Send it to China. The MBAs with real experience
>>>> knew better, wouldn't go for the instant gratification ideas, so they
>>>> aren't the ones who got promoted to positions to make significant
>>>> business decisions. Part of the reason American companies seem to be
>>>> stuck in a ditch is because we're now starting to see the long term
>>>> effects of short term efforts to prop up that share price.
>>>>
>>>> I could show rather convincingly how moving some R&D workforce to China
>>>> because they bill 1/3 is costing us twice as much, and losing us market
>>>> share. But I don't have the right letters after my name, I don't get
>>>> to go to those meetings.
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
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