I bought a hard copy last week. It came in yesterday.
Very good book, an absolute must.
Better than coffee at getting the brain working. Try it!
Bob K.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:53 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
Wait. I thought the hardcopy sold out. Are you re-print to a new ed?
Joyce Koo
Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab Research In Motion Limited
Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
Mobile: (226) 220-4760
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
" 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature,"
Dammit, I wrote it!!! http://www.bnellis.eu/book/ (SOPA-permitted!)
Brian
On 25/01/2012 18:18, Paul Edwards wrote:
> Brian,
>
> 1. Cl- and F- essentially develop ion water groups that remove water
molecules from the bulk available to solubilize ionic and polar molecules...
>
> 2. Technically you are correct however most open loop cleaning systems are
either a wash then dry or a wash, rinse (with a different water source)
then dry system... For a wash then dry system, unconditioned water maybe
insufficient to adequately do the job. We don't use a wash only system.
>
> 3. You are right and I see you have read the literature, that's why we use
a solution wash, first rinse of ~1-2M water and a final rinse of 8M to 18M.
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Edwards
> Process/Quality Engineering
> Surface Art Engineering
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:19 AM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Paul Edwards
> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND
> FACTS& HISTORY FIRST
>
> I don't wholly agree for three reasons:
> 1. Cl- and F- anions are generally pretty soluble and saturation in
> tap water is extremely unlikely 2. In my original intervention, I said
> that tap water is usually OK for WASHING (which was the original
> question) but not necessarily for RINSING and if DI water is used for
> rinsing, then any remaining anions (or cations) would be removed, in
> the unlikely event of saturation happening 3. The surface tension of
> DI water is about 72 dyne.cm whereas most tap water is usually about
> 30 dyne.cm. This means that washing with DI water is more likely to
> NOT penetrate under components and in other interstices.
>
> That having been said, I don't say that WASHING in tap, softened or DI
> water will make any significant difference in at least 99 out of 100
> cases, assuming, as I said before, there is no incompatibility with
> additives and that the water is reasonable in quality. I may draw the
> line at polluted river water, though, although I have never seen this
> in real life. The question is whether tap water is OK for the final
> rinse(s) and there I'll plagiarise Doug with an "It depends". I have
> seen many cases where it was fine and many where it was catastrophic.
> Qualification is necessary in all cases (I have also seen many cases
> where the final rinse in DI water was catastrophic, as well!).
>
> Brian
>
> On 24/01/2012 20:23, Paul Edwards wrote:
>> Joyce,
>>
>> Di water would be better because it more typically readily absorbs more
and weaker positively and negatively charged ionics then city water...
>>
>> When the city water has been loaded with Cl and F compounds then the
ionic absorption balance changes...
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul Edwards
>> Process/Quality Engineering
>> Surface Art Engineering
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:33 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
HISTORY FIRST
>>
>> Brian,
>> Can you kindly refresh my memory: why DI washing is better than city
water? (don't ask me why I need to know. I just need expert voice). Many
thanks (buy you a glass of wine when we meet).
>>
>> Joyce Koo
>> Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab Research In Motion
>> Limited
>> Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
>> Mobile: (226) 220-4760
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
HISTORY FIRST
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I've worked in China on cleaning/drying problems and
>> OD solvent replacement. I can assure you that most of the numerous
>> shops there use exactly the same types of equipment and techniques as
>> are used in developed countries, sometimes even better.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On 24/01/2012 17:10, Robert Kondner wrote:
>>> When it comes to selecting someone to help analyze a company's processes
I will take the "Fresh Out of School" MBA over an experienced electronic
technician any day.
>>>
>>> When I asked about rinsing in tap water followed with a water blow
off so many folks said "Must Use DI" without even considering an analysis. A
fresh out of school MBA might think about it longer. Hmmm I think I will pay
them more money.
>>>
>>> What would they do in China? Put in a DI system of blow off tap
water with an air gun? Hmmm, sounds like China knows the value of a dollar!
>>>
>>> Bob K.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:18 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS&
HISTORY FIRST
>>>
>>> There seems to be two types of MBAs. Those that start with an undergrad
degree and get their MBA as they, and those that get their MBAs before
entering the real world. The problem came in the 80's, when every company
wanted to hire those freshly minted MBAs right out of school. About the
same time that share price became the only barometer. So began a cycle of
formulatic answers because the textbook said so. Profits temporarily down?
Reduce the workforce. Wnat more profits? Send it to China. The MBAs with
real experience knew better, wouldn't go for the instant gratification
ideas, so they aren't the ones who got promoted to positions to make
significant business decisions. Part of the reason American companies seem
to be stuck in a ditch is because we're now starting to see the long term
effects of short term efforts to prop up that share price.
>>>
>>> I could show rather convincingly how moving some R&D workforce to China
because they bill 1/3 is costing us twice as much, and losing us market
share. But I don't have the right letters after my name, I don't get to go
to those meetings.
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
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