Haven't checked your math, but 1 ug/cm sq is around about the sort of number
turned up by ROSE testing on some cleaned boards. (Others look for 1/10 this
number)
However instruments like the Ionograph, Omegameter etc give out their
numbers for ionics only. They express their readings as NaCl equivalent.
i.e., if salt was the contaminant the number is the amount which would give
the resistance change measured. There is no qualitative aspect in these
numbers; that was taken care of originally by restricting flux used to known
qualified types.
So whereas your theoretical number is in the same zone, qualitatively it is
a complete unknown. On that basis I am not sure it can be viewed as much
more than a coincidence.
Regards
Mike Fenner
Bonding Services & Products
T: +44 [0] 1865 522 663 E: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Kondner
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 4:44 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
Hi,
If you had a layer of water .1mm thick on a board (that is rather thick)
and it had 100mg / liter dissolved solids (really bad water) there would be
.01ml of water on each cmsq. So dissolved solids would be .1g/L * 10**-5L or
1 microgram / cmsq. Did I do that right?
How does the 1 microgram / cmsq compare to established standards? Does
anyone know?
Bob K.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
Paul,
You are going to have to do better than say "look it up under solubility
charts...". That's doesn't give us enough to go on.
With regards to your #1
"1) I get boards that don't pass functional test when I wash at less than
10k water and pass at any thing above 8Meg (also have the same result with
GPUs)"
No kidding! I contend your 10-50K water is leaving relatively lots of nasty
stuff on the board and that is why it fails.
" When the city water has been loaded with Cl and F compounds then the ionic
absorption balance changes..." I have never heard of such a thing. What is
an "ionic absorption balance"?
City water will typically have only 0.2-1 ppm chlorine
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chlorine.pdf
Seeing as the solubility of, for instance, sodium chloride is 35.7 GRAMS/100
mL water at 20°C, I cannot see how a ppm is going to affect either the
thermodynamics or the kinetics of soluble salt dissolution from a circuit
pack.
Bev
RIM
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Edwards
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
I would love to give you the 2 sources on 1 but you would have to sign an
NDA...
Look it up under solubility charts...
Paul
Paul Edwards
Process/Quality Engineering
Surface Art Engineering
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Kondner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:15 AM
To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; Paul Edwards
Subject: RE: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
Ok,
Well Source number 1 is pure hogwash.
Got a source for #2 or is that more hogwash?
Bob K.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Edwards
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
2 Places...
1) I get boards that don't pass functional test when I wash at less than 10k
water and pass at any thing above 8Meg (also have the same result with GPUs)
2) Looking at composite solubility curves for city water verses DI water
Any water will wash off solublized material or "mud" because it is on the
PCB but for stuff that is attached to the PCB with an electrostatic bond you
need "more power"...
Paul
Paul Edwards
Process/Quality Engineering
Surface Art Engineering
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Kondner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:44 AM
To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; Paul Edwards
Subject: RE: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
Paul,
That is a new thought. Where did that information come from?
Bob K.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Edwards
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:23 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
Joyce,
Di water would be better because it more typically readily absorbs more and
weaker positively and negatively charged ionics then city water...
When the city water has been loaded with Cl and F compounds then the ionic
absorption balance changes...
Paul
Paul Edwards
Process/Quality Engineering
Surface Art Engineering
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:33 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
Brian,
Can you kindly refresh my memory: why DI washing is better than city water?
(don't ask me why I need to know. I just need expert voice). Many thanks
(buy you a glass of wine when we meet).
Joyce Koo
Materials Researcher - Materials Interconnect Lab Research In Motion Limited
Office: (519) 888-7465 79945
Mobile: (226) 220-4760
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND FACTS &
HISTORY FIRST
I'm sorry, but I've worked in China on cleaning/drying problems and OD
solvent replacement. I can assure you that most of the numerous shops there
use exactly the same types of equipment and techniques as are used in
developed countries, sometimes even better.
Brian
On 24/01/2012 17:10, Robert Kondner wrote:
> When it comes to selecting someone to help analyze a company's
> processes I
will take the "Fresh Out of School" MBA over an experienced electronic
technician any day.
>
> When I asked about rinsing in tap water followed with a water blow
> off
so many folks said "Must Use DI" without even considering an analysis. A
fresh out of school MBA might think about it longer. Hmmm I think I will pay
them more money.
>
> What would they do in China? Put in a DI system of blow off tap
> water
with an air gun? Hmmm, sounds like China knows the value of a dollar!
>
> Bob K.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:18 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] The iPhone Economy (from NY Times)--BACKGROUND
> FACTS& HISTORY FIRST
>
> There seems to be two types of MBAs. Those that start with an
> undergrad
degree and get their MBA as they, and those that get their MBAs before
entering the real world. The problem came in the 80's, when every company
wanted to hire those freshly minted MBAs right out of school. About the
same time that share price became the only barometer. So began a cycle of
formulatic answers because the textbook said so. Profits temporarily down?
Reduce the workforce. Wnat more profits? Send it to China. The MBAs with
real experience knew better, wouldn't go for the instant gratification
ideas, so they aren't the ones who got promoted to positions to make
significant business decisions. Part of the reason American companies seem
to be stuck in a ditch is because we're now starting to see the long term
effects of short term efforts to prop up that share price.
>
> I could show rather convincingly how moving some R&D workforce to
> China
because they bill 1/3 is costing us twice as much, and losing us market
share. But I don't have the right letters after my name, I don't get to go
to those meetings.
>
> Pete
>
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