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Subject:
From:
Steven Creswick <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Steven Creswick <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 27 Dec 2011 12:10:38 -0500
Content-Type:
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text/plain (333 lines)
In case there are others that could not read Joyce's earlier post - here it
is without all the strange characters.

Steve C


From: Joyce Koo 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>; [log in to unmask]
<[log in to unmask]> 
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant 
 
Endangerd species manual? Start from Microwave design 101? Concept,
prototype, layout (too bad, nowadays is layout prior to prototype. I must
wired my brain in a wrong sequence), detail production (wire bonding
included), test, rel test, re-tool and shooting to the sky? I all for it.
When is the 1st chapter start? Jan, 2012? Wow. That is a nice new year's
gift. 
-------------------------- 
Sent using BlackBerry 


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge Hernefjord
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant

l still have one early VCR, a Betamax with toploading. And a Thorn. And a
Revox Studer B77A. And a Beocord. Wife has tried repeatedly to make me
throw them, but I 'can't ' of reasons that only a retrogeek can understand.

By the way, the Xmas celebrating on TechNet is not longer what it was once.
At the time when Moon Man and Klasek and Barmuta and Randy Bock and Ryan
Grant etc were active, we wrote poems and rhymes and I could have more than
25 Xmas greetings in my mailbox. Steve Gregory was the dynamo at that time.

I have an idea how to vitalize the forum, but I doubt I can do what I
proposed, namely, to deliver one or two technical articles or reports each
week. Not newwritten, but from my own archive. The bad type with horns
whisper in my ear ' don't do it, noone will read. Why waste your energy on
meaningless tasks'.  I plugged both ears, but the thoughts were already
planted and are more or less permanent now. Seems as if the number of
active members are just a handful nowadays.

Inge


On 26 December 2011 19:51, Joyce Koo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Inge, your last remark of the post remind me an counter part of once my
> old customer told me: "when you become a MGR, your brain got sucked out".
> Well, I still owned a 4 head VCR in 1989 vintage.  Work well today (except
> EL display) without any maintenance (not even cleaned once of the head).
A
> G4 iMac since 97 never hit a glitch (still use it everyday).  Well, the
> warrentee at that time is hardly used or not need to be brought: extended
> or otherwise.  It came with the name-design.  Not any more.  Still marvel
> the Cassini workmanship.  Beauty (love it)!
> We were the lucky and endangered species that still remember and
> experience the good design of common sense and inner beauty.
> --------------------------
> Sent using BlackBerry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Inge [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2011 04:21 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant
>
> Not only in the PWB world..,.some of you had a seat in whole day meeting
> with chairs designed with 90 degrees support for the back. Instead of a
> chair, one got a torture tool. Or when you are going to mount a 110 V plug
> on a outdoor cable. Your unscrew the plug's cover and open it and then you
> realize, too late, that the little screw fell to the muddy ground and
> disappeared. Or the high speed hand held grinding machine that did not
> start
> again, because the springs that press the carbons against the collector
> were
> too weak. Or some cigarette lightners that are so idiotic done,  that you
> get the hot flame on your thumb instead of on the cigarett. Or the laptops
> that have not distances to stand on, so there will come no input cooling
> air
> and the poor circulation fan is running to death when trying to get air.
As
> you said, the list could be long. Now I come to what makes me groan: when
> you point at the bad design (which is  NOT solely about the outer shape)
> you
> get the answer ' man, what can you expect from a piece that costs you only
> one geen. What a lost sole! He does apperently not know, that the owner of
> the company lives as a billionaire on the Bahamas. And HE uses a Ronson
> when
> he lights his havanna cigar.
>
> I meet bad designs every day and so do we all. It's the mentality today
for
> many people. Why bother? Why wake up at midnight and make a sketch for a
> new
> concept?  Why work in the lab voluntarily over the weekend for so few
> dollars ?  Etc. When the younger came in to my office (I'm retired now)
> they
> marvelled when they saw my fact and knowledge backup. They shrugged and
> meant ' poor old man...we are only on a temporary mission.. have other
> goals'.  True. I belong to the idiots that had no time to jump in zigzag
to
> the top positions. On the other hand....I stood one day in the rain on the
> bank of a local little creek. I studied the small dippers in my
binoculars.
> Heard a voice close to my right and turned, It was the president of the
> company where I worked . We chatted about this and that, and he asked me
> about my job (he knew me a little from the organisation plan). I told him
> about the struggle against cost, time, technical obstacles, but also about
> the amusing and funny moments.  His comment :  ' Happy man, you know lots.
> I
> became president and now I know nothing'.
>
> Inge
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Wolfe" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant
>
>
> My Turn on The Soap Box
> I 100% agree with yours & Pete Houwen's comments
>
> No offense to anyone just starting out in design, don't take this the
wrong
> way, but I absolutely CRINGE
> when I read some of the questions posted here & mostly on the Designers
> Council forum about design.
> Like "What is a via?" Pretty scary stuff!!!!!!!!
> I keep hoping I won't be buying any products designed by these people.
> Problem is everyone needs to start someplace
> (however it would help though to have at least one other Sr. level person
> with you in the dept as a Mentor)
> It is a good thing is we have these types of forums & the fact that they
> are
> actually asking questions
> and not blindly muddling along is somewhat comforting. But an email forum
> can't replace formal training.
> Proper training in both design & CAD tool should be absolutely
> required!!!!!!
> Once one has had extensive design experience & been thru a few CAD systems
> only then should one consider self training on a new CAD system.
> But formal training does shorten that learning curve substantially.
> Happy Holidays
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rex Waygood
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:00 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] PCB Design Rant
>
> A follow on from
> QFP centre slug over signal vias
>
> There are some interesting comments in the QFP thread which are to do
> with PCB design and they have caused me to pull out my current soap box.
>
> I would like to be a bit extreme and say there should be a tax of a few
> thousand pounds or dollars imposed upon those that give away free CAD
> packages. The money raised should be provided to vendors who sell real
> CAD packages to subsidise PCB layout training in order to allow cost
> effective and reliable pcb design, assembly design, rework and design
> for test to be taught properly.
>
> Why is it that an electronics engineer will design a circuit and then
> feel that he is competent to lay out the circuit using a free CAD
> package? The fact that the CAD package was free meant that management
> were not involved and the consequences of a PCB being laid out by
> someone with little or no knowledge of the pcb industry or even the
> assembly industry were not considered.
>
> The list of stupid things we see is very long, it results in pcbs and
> assemblies being more expensive to procure, less reliable to
> manufacture, difficult to make, impossible to test, slower to get into
> production and just downright rubbish. The free CAD package cannot
> provide intelligent data means that a reverse engineering process is
> required to attempt to undo some of the stupidities we see. Words like
> DRC and libraries are an unknown for many using these packages.
>
> Also I'd rather tell a six year old that Fred, their pet turkey, is
> required as a sacrifice for thanks giving day than explain to a young
> circuit designer with a free CAD package that he is delving into areas
> that he should stay out of and that his layout is very bad. That doesn't
> mean I don't do it but Fred's demise is easier.
>
> I could go on but mince pies are calling
> Happy winter solstice
> Rex
>
>
>
>
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