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December 2011

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Subject:
From:
Robert Kondner <[log in to unmask]>
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Date:
Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:33:56 -0500
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Bob,

But, you are describing "Inspected In" quality, not "Designed In". I cringe
at that! :-)

 Hey, I agree, the real world has a lot of problems but if the problems are
at a level where they matter then it is time to change something to where
the problems  don't happen or issues are tested out to the required level. 

 I also see lots of dollars going into final PCB "Inspection" and I know
they only catch 50% of the problems. I would rather fire the inspectors and
improve the process such that there are only 33% of the errors. Now we have
low costs and better quality. 

Bob K.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Wolfe
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant

Bob,
Yes we all cringe when we mistakes, and we all do from time to time.
That why they make erasers right.
But with enough people looking at it hopefully none make to outgoing
product. If fab house catches something at least there might be chance to
correct before assembly and so on, yes still possibly a costly or time
sensitive mistake, but every bit of checking helps.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Kondner
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant

Actually,

 We only cringe at the errors we catch. How many go out the door? Now that
makes me cringe! :-)

Bob K.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ahne Oosterhof
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant

You may cringe at such questions, but you should feel lucky. Just imagine
what would happen if that person did not ask such questions and just
blundered ahead!
Maybe that's why us old people are still around: to teach them young-uns how
to do things.

As an aside: I had to teach a small group how to use the software to prepare
the data to cut a stencil. Most of them were "experienced" manufacturing
people. One person hardly knew what a circuit board was or what a stencil
was needed for. She kept asking question after question. But in the end, she
became the person proficient at getting stencil data ready for the lasers!

Happy holidays,
And keep teaching! All of you!

Thanks,
Ahne.



-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Wolfe
Sent: 22 December, 2011 7:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Design Rant

My Turn on The Soap Box
I 100% agree with yours & Pete Houwen's comments

No offense to anyone just starting out in design, don't take this the wrong
way, but I absolutely CRINGE when I read some of the questions posted here &
mostly on the Designers Council forum about design.
Like "What is a via?" Pretty scary stuff!!!!!!!!
I keep hoping I won't be buying any products designed by these people.
Problem is everyone needs to start someplace (however it would help though
to have at least one other Sr. level person with you in the dept as a
Mentor) It is a good thing is we have these types of forums & the fact that
they are actually asking questions and not blindly muddling along is
somewhat comforting. But an email forum can't replace formal training.
Proper training in both design & CAD tool should be absolutely
required!!!!!!
Once one has had extensive design experience & been thru a few CAD systems
only then should one consider self training on a new CAD system.
But formal training does shorten that learning curve substantially.
Happy Holidays
Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rex Waygood
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] PCB Design Rant

A follow on from
QFP centre slug over signal vias

There are some interesting comments in the QFP thread which are to do with
PCB design and they have caused me to pull out my current soap box.

I would like to be a bit extreme and say there should be a tax of a few
thousand pounds or dollars imposed upon those that give away free CAD
packages. The money raised should be provided to vendors who sell real CAD
packages to subsidise PCB layout training in order to allow cost effective
and reliable pcb design, assembly design, rework and design for test to be
taught properly.

Why is it that an electronics engineer will design a circuit and then feel
that he is competent to lay out the circuit using a free CAD package? The
fact that the CAD package was free meant that management were not involved
and the consequences of a PCB being laid out by someone with little or no
knowledge of the pcb industry or even the assembly industry were not
considered.

The list of stupid things we see is very long, it results in pcbs and
assemblies being more expensive to procure, less reliable to manufacture,
difficult to make, impossible to test, slower to get into production and
just downright rubbish. The free CAD package cannot provide intelligent data
means that a reverse engineering process is required to attempt to undo some
of the stupidities we see. Words like DRC and libraries are an unknown for
many using these packages.

Also I'd rather tell a six year old that Fred, their pet turkey, is required
as a sacrifice for thanks giving day than explain to a young circuit
designer with a free CAD package that he is delving into areas that he
should stay out of and that his layout is very bad. That doesn't mean I
don't do it but Fred's demise is easier.

I could go on but mince pies are calling Happy winter solstice Rex




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