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From:
Joyce Koo <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Joyce Koo <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:54:35 -0400
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"Yes, Sir" usually OK as long as you have all the design in detail nailed.  The creative rule bending free spirits are the scary one. My 2 cents. 

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Kondner
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines

Thanks, you demonstrates my point  when you called the doc a SPECIFICATION:

    You Wrote: "The specifications are a teaching tool..."

    You Wrote: "Here, go read this specification and then let's sit down and
discuss..."

Duh, I thought they were "Consensus Documents"?

How many of the "Hordes" really go and read the IPC docs and think? Not
many.

 When there is an ignorant individual on the customer side it is more likely
that we must click our heels and say "Yes Sir". And the ignorant customer
knows he/she is justified to demand the "Heel Click" as they just read the
specification. Thanks.

Bob K.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines

Ohhhhhhhh, I dunno.

Without a doubt, specifications are misused, misunderstood, misapplied, etc.
The laws of supply and demand do not apply to the foolish - we have a far
greater supply of fools than we have demand for.

BUT, ya gotta start somewhere.  I am in the position here at Rockwell of
training hordes of new engineers on cleaning processes, chemicals, conformal
coatings, etc.  The specifications are a teaching tool and a starting point.
Here, go read this specification and then lets sit down and discuss what is
right and wrong about it and what it means to Rockwell Collins and the
Aerospace Industry.

When the ignorant individuals are on the customer's side of the fence, then
it is a teaching opportunity.  The answer is not abolish consensus
documents, the answer is patient education and better training.  I can say
from experience that it helps my case tremendously when I can show that we
are in leadership positions in the IPC committees.  Aids tremendously in
listening.

Doug Pauls



"Robert Kondner" <[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 10:53 AM
Please respond to
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Subject
RE: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines






Doug,

  The spreading of information is a plus in my book, I am a big fan of IPC
docs for that. And I tip my hat towards anyone who pulls together a good
process analysis. 

 But more often "Consensus Documents" are used as a "Specifications" by
hordes of poorly trained "Technical Experts". Some of the nonsense about
paste expiration dates, final rinse in DI water and other are perfect
examples.

 Without a doubt there is much each of us needs to learn, and there are 
many
issues in a manufacturing process. But a "Consensus Document" leads too 
many
to stop thinking and stop learning. The result is the bitter reward. 

Bob K.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines

Ohhhhhh I dunno.

Bob, while there are down sides to consensus documents, they are pretty 
darn
good when you consider the alternatives and provide a common ground that
make "exceptions" easier to do.  I know I would much rather say, use
workmanship per IPC-A-610, except for A, B, C. Rather than write a 
complete
document, which I have done.  Taint easy.

Doug Pauls



"Robert Kondner" <[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 10:23 AM
Please respond to
<[log in to unmask]>


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Subject
OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines






Consensus Documents. I abhor that concept. (Yes, I know, the EU seems to
love them .)

Hmmmm, think about this:

                 How Governments Make Laws:

                 Price Fixing

                 Social Mandates

                 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

Bob K. 

 



-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines

Prashant,
Keep in mind that IPC documents are consensus documents.  What may be good
as a general guideline may not be adequate for niche applications or for
various industry segments.  We have the same issue with the IPC-A-610. 
Excellent as a base document but does not necessarily have what our
Aerospace company needs for some applications, so we make exceptions for
those.

Doug Pauls



prashant chopra <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet
<[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 07:34 AM
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TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to prashant chopra
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<[log in to unmask]>
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Subject
[TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines






Hi,
 
Hello everyone. I have a very basic question here.
 
Why do we require our own specific DFM guidlines (every OEM / CM will have 


their own specific DFM Guideline) when we have the IPC guidelines defined 
and available?
 
I am looking for the pointers and specific examples which can highlight 
the need to have and develop specific DFM guidelines for a company.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Regards 
Prashant

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