Richard,
Would you recommend the J-STD-001 over the IPC-A-610, or should they be considered both good reference documents that each bring some definition to the Process?
I do have a copy of the IPC-HDBK-100 and the IPC-A-610. May not have read them cover to cover, but definitely devoured some sections.
Regards,
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Boy, Doug. You nailed that one. I totally agree. I also want to point out that very few people read the IPC handbooks such as IPC-HDBK-001, which clearly explains the INTENTION of J-STD-001 and clarifies the standards.
It should be required reading for every process engineer and every quality engineer, whether OEM, CEM, customer, or otherwise. This would greatly reduce much of the misuse, misunderstanding, and misapplication.
Hang a copy from the toilet paper holder.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:14 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Ohhhhhhhh, I dunno.
Without a doubt, specifications are misused, misunderstood, misapplied, etc. The laws of supply and demand do not apply to the foolish - we have a far greater supply of fools than we have demand for.
BUT, ya gotta start somewhere. I am in the position here at Rockwell of training hordes of new engineers on cleaning processes, chemicals, conformal coatings, etc. The specifications are a teaching tool and a starting point. Here, go read this specification and then lets sit down and discuss what is right and wrong about it and what it means to Rockwell Collins and the Aerospace Industry.
When the ignorant individuals are on the customer's side of the fence, then it is a teaching opportunity. The answer is not abolish consensus documents, the answer is patient education and better training. I can say from experience that it helps my case tremendously when I can show that we are in leadership positions in the IPC committees. Aids tremendously in listening.
Doug Pauls
"Robert Kondner" <[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 10:53 AM
Please respond to
<[log in to unmask]>
To
"'TechNet E-Mail Forum'" <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
RE: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Doug,
The spreading of information is a plus in my book, I am a big fan of IPC
docs for that. And I tip my hat towards anyone who pulls together a good
process analysis.
But more often "Consensus Documents" are used as a "Specifications" by
hordes of poorly trained "Technical Experts". Some of the nonsense about
paste expiration dates, final rinse in DI water and other are perfect
examples.
Without a doubt there is much each of us needs to learn, and there are
many
issues in a manufacturing process. But a "Consensus Document" leads too
many
to stop thinking and stop learning. The result is the bitter reward.
Bob K.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Ohhhhhh I dunno.
Bob, while there are down sides to consensus documents, they are pretty
darn
good when you consider the alternatives and provide a common ground that
make "exceptions" easier to do. I know I would much rather say, use
workmanship per IPC-A-610, except for A, B, C. Rather than write a
complete
document, which I have done. Taint easy.
Doug Pauls
"Robert Kondner" <[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 10:23 AM
Please respond to
<[log in to unmask]>
To
"'TechNet E-Mail Forum'" <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Consensus Documents. I abhor that concept. (Yes, I know, the EU seems to
love them .)
Hmmmm, think about this:
How Governments Make Laws:
Price Fixing
Social Mandates
Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
Bob K.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Prashant,
Keep in mind that IPC documents are consensus documents. What may be good
as a general guideline may not be adequate for niche applications or for
various industry segments. We have the same issue with the IPC-A-610.
Excellent as a base document but does not necessarily have what our
Aerospace company needs for some applications, so we make exceptions for
those.
Doug Pauls
prashant chopra <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet
<[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 07:34 AM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to prashant chopra
<[log in to unmask]>
To
<[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
[TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Hi,
Hello everyone. I have a very basic question here.
Why do we require our own specific DFM guidlines (every OEM / CM will have
their own specific DFM Guideline) when we have the IPC guidelines defined
and available?
I am looking for the pointers and specific examples which can highlight
the need to have and develop specific DFM guidelines for a company.
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Prashant
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