Hold on, I take back the suggestion of hanging it in the restroom. I know j=
ust what the Quality engineers would then do with it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stadem, Richard D.=20
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:25 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Boy, Doug. You nailed that one. I totally agree. I also want to point out t=
hat very few people read the IPC handbooks such as IPC-HDBK-001, which clea=
rly explains the INTENTION of J-STD-001 and clarifies the standards.
It should be required reading for every process engineer and every quality =
engineer, whether OEM, CEM, customer, or otherwise. This would greatly redu=
ce much of the misuse, misunderstanding, and misapplication.
Hang a copy from the toilet paper holder.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:14 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Ohhhhhhhh, I dunno.
Without a doubt, specifications are misused, misunderstood, misapplied,=20
etc. The laws of supply and demand do not apply to the foolish - we have=20
a far greater supply of fools than we have demand for.
BUT, ya gotta start somewhere. I am in the position here at Rockwell of=20
training hordes of new engineers on cleaning processes, chemicals,=20
conformal coatings, etc. The specifications are a teaching tool and a=20
starting point. Here, go read this specification and then lets sit down=20
and discuss what is right and wrong about it and what it means to Rockwell=
=20
Collins and the Aerospace Industry.
When the ignorant individuals are on the customer's side of the fence,=20
then it is a teaching opportunity. The answer is not abolish consensus=20
documents, the answer is patient education and better training. I can say=
=20
from experience that it helps my case tremendously when I can show that we=
=20
are in leadership positions in the IPC committees. Aids tremendously in=20
listening.
Doug Pauls
"Robert Kondner" <[log in to unmask]>=20
09/29/2011 10:53 AM
Please respond to
<[log in to unmask]>
To
"'TechNet E-Mail Forum'" <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
RE: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Doug,
The spreading of information is a plus in my book, I am a big fan of IPC
docs for that. And I tip my hat towards anyone who pulls together a good
process analysis.=20
But more often "Consensus Documents" are used as a "Specifications" by
hordes of poorly trained "Technical Experts". Some of the nonsense about
paste expiration dates, final rinse in DI water and other are perfect
examples.
Without a doubt there is much each of us needs to learn, and there are=20
many
issues in a manufacturing process. But a "Consensus Document" leads too=20
many
to stop thinking and stop learning. The result is the bitter reward.=20
Bob K.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Ohhhhhh I dunno.
Bob, while there are down sides to consensus documents, they are pretty=20
darn
good when you consider the alternatives and provide a common ground that
make "exceptions" easier to do. I know I would much rather say, use
workmanship per IPC-A-610, except for A, B, C. Rather than write a=20
complete
document, which I have done. Taint easy.
Doug Pauls
"Robert Kondner" <[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 10:23 AM
Please respond to
<[log in to unmask]>
To
"'TechNet E-Mail Forum'" <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
OT RE: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Consensus Documents. I abhor that concept. (Yes, I know, the EU seems to
love them .)
Hmmmm, think about this:
How Governments Make Laws:
Price Fixing
Social Mandates
Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
Bob K.=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Prashant,
Keep in mind that IPC documents are consensus documents. What may be good
as a general guideline may not be adequate for niche applications or for
various industry segments. We have the same issue with the IPC-A-610.=20
Excellent as a base document but does not necessarily have what our
Aerospace company needs for some applications, so we make exceptions for
those.
Doug Pauls
prashant chopra <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet
<[log in to unmask]>
09/29/2011 07:34 AM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to prashant chopra
<[log in to unmask]>
To
<[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
[TN] DFM Guidelines v/s IPC Guidelines
Hi,
=20
Hello everyone. I have a very basic question here.
=20
Why do we require our own specific DFM guidlines (every OEM / CM will have=
=20
their own specific DFM Guideline) when we have the IPC guidelines defined=20
and available?
=20
I am looking for the pointers and specific examples which can highlight=20
the need to have and develop specific DFM guidelines for a company.
=20
Thanks in advance.
=20
Regards=20
Prashant
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 16.0
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to=20
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to=20
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
For additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=
=20
847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 16.0
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
For additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 16.0
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
For additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 16.0
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to Listse=
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip=
c.org: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
For additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or =
847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 16.0
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
For additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
|
