Hi Bob - yes, and just to keep a level playing field as the article
comments are severely skewed to one side of the scale, the IPC Class 3
High Performance electronic products (military, aerospace, medical,
telecom etc.) may be able to utilize lead-free soldering technology
provided sufficient reliability testing can be conducted and verified. Any
time an industry goes thru a material set change, life critical and safety
critical applications tend to lag other product applications that have
less stringent reliability requirements. How do we transition from a
known, characterized material set to a new material set? Carefully, with
good engineering design, utilizing the material engineering community
knowledge and with measured, progressive steps. As more testing is
completed and more knowledge is accumulated, we'll have a better
understanding of what Class 3 applications/products will be acceptable and
which ones will not be acceptable. The question of "Can lead-free solder
be used for Class 3 applications?" is going to be answered slowly, over
time and its isn't going to be a simple yes/no response.
Dave
Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
07/18/2011 09:38 AM
Please respond to
[log in to unmask]
To
<[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
Bev,
I know you and I think you're a brilliant guy but please qualify your
statement with the fact that your company makes THROW AWAY products!
What's the lifetime of a 'crack'berry, 2-3 years?
Sure, RIM can use Pb-free processes (and no-clean) but I CANNOT! And
that's why I and Gordon Davy and Denny Fritz and I searched for a process
to stop tin whiskers. But we have no solution for all the other problems
lead-free causes. Wish we did!!
Nor can biomed, aerospace, telecom or many other critical life sustaining
industries tolerate lead-free processes and continue to have the same
reliablity.
I have no knowledge of whether or not Ron Lasky has made a fortune on this
fiasco, but he's not making things better for those of us in the high rel
industries when he makes outrageous statements such as what was said here.
Sincerely,
Bob Landman
H&L Instruments, LLC
LDF Coatings, LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
Richard,
I consider both you and Ron Lasky friends. I disagree with both him
saying it is a "grand success" (without qualification, more on that in a
bit) and you saying his opinion is motivated by greed.
I think I know Ron well enough to know it is not greed. I mean he is not
getting THAT much $ from Indium. :) All kidding aside, it would be against
his moral principles. I think you are too harsh in your comment.
For companies like I work for and many others in the commercial sector, it
has been a grand success, but, as you say, at a cost to the environment
and it has involved succeeding in a grand and fun and challenging
scientific and engineering endeavor. That surmounting of the struggle by
those you named and many others is the "grand success".
Finally, I think George Wenger said it best, I think this is close to a
direct quote: "One of the best things mankind has done environmentally is
ban tetraethyl lead. One of the worst things we have done is ban tin/lead
solder."
With that I close.
Bev
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
I have to agree with George Wenger, Scott Post and many others.
Irresponsible statements like "lead-free solder is a grand success" should
NOT be ignored. Those who make such statements in the face of all of the
contrary evidence should be noted, and treated as motivated only by greed.
Lead-free soldering certainly has been known for many "thousand$" of
successes.
I have learned that it is not even worth the bother to refute such
statements with those who make them. It may be a "grand success" for PhDs
who contract to solder paste companies, but it certainly has not been a
"grand success" to literally thousands of companies dealing with the
reliability elephant sitting in the room getting larger by the day, and
the associated fallout as a result.
It certainly has not been a success to the environment, because it created
many negative environmental impacts where there were none in the first
place. As a result of the tin mining issues, as well as billions of
additional kilowatt hours needed yearly to reflow the same products, and
the loss of reliability that goes hand-in-hand with the elimination of
lead in the solder joint, well, it certainly cannot be called anything
close to a "grand success".
And it certainly was very poorly planned and implemented. RoHS
requirements for lead-free solder were rammed through without any due
diligence on the part of the solder companies whatsoever. Ironically, we,
an industry that prides itself for its reliability assurance and quality
standards and for developing tools such as FMEA, 5 Whys, and other
mistake-proofing methods can only shake our heads in dismay and
embarrassment from these self-appointed "solder experts" who irresponsibly
supported these changes forced upon us by the EU, and are now standing at
the pulpit and make such
claims as if they were directly responsible for this "Grand $ucce$$".
Indeed, if lead-free solder was a "grand success", it was only so because
of the humongous collective effort and the collaboration by the process
engineers and scientists and the true reliability experts within the
industry such as Werner Engelmaier, Craig Hillman, Dave Hillman, George
Wenger, and so many others who were able to identify and respond to all of
the issues, which extend well beyond just tin whiskers.
They were able to identify issues such as pad cratering, head-on-pillow,
shrinkage cracks, the exacerbation of Black Pad and Brittle nickel due to
the lack of lead and higher reflow and rework temperatures, copper
dissolution and de-wetting, non-homogeneous mixed-alloy BGA solder joints,
PWB issues and component reliability issues from reflow at higher
lead-free temperatures, and literally hundreds of other problems that
popped up as a result of lead-free solder and RoHS requirements in
general.
If an engineer forced through changes like this in a process where I work,
without having done the due diligence and thorough qualification required,
he would have been fired.
Had not some of true experts been here to identify and solve these issues
that resulted from RoHS lead-free requirements, it would have been much
more of a fiasco and clusterfooey than it actually was and still is. Can
you imagine what something like this would have been like without the
benefit of these people and the Technet Forum?
Those in the Forum are the people I will listen to when they declare
anything as being a "grand success", not them other smart folks who don't
know a Metcal iron from a Hakko wand.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenger, George M.
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
It seems premature to state "lead-free solder is a grand success" with
only
five years (July 2006 to July 2011) experience.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger
Senior Principal Reliability / FMA Engineer Andrew Corporation - Wireless
Network Solutions 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 Office (732) 309-8964 Mobile
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Christison
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1389&doc_id=231199&f_src=des
ignnews_gnews
"Dr. Ronald Lasky, Dartmouth professor of engineering and a frequent
blogger on solder, claims the transition to lead-free was a grand success.
"A lot of people claim that lead-free solder is not as reliable as
lead-based solder," Lasky told me. "We're now five years into the
implementation of RoHS, and we've made $3 trillion work of electronic.
We haven't really noticed any big change in reliability.""
I thought some of you may be interested in the above article.
Regards,
--
Eric Christison
Consumer& Micro group
Imaging Division
STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
33 Pinkhill
Edinburgh EH12 7BF
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0)131 336 6165
Fax: + 44 (0)131 336 6001
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