A subset of cell phone users take the term "throw away product" rather too literally. See the definition of "Chucking" at the link below:
http://searchmobilecomputing.techtarget.com/definition/chucking
Best regards,
Raye Rivera
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
Bob,
Hardly brilliant, remember PhD stands for pile high and deeper and not many
people are that interested in the sulfides and selenides of phosphorus and
arsenic.
Yes, we make a relatively short lived product. I sort of cringe at the term
"throw away" though. I am somewhat of a Luddite and I kept my last
Blackberry for about 4 years, even though I could get a new one every few
months, if I so desired.
Point taken on much of what else you said. My comments were based on where I
come from and I did couch my words very carefully. We have made it work. I
never said it was better.
Bev
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bob Landman
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 10:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
Bev,
I know you and I think you're a brilliant guy but please qualify your
statement with the fact that your company makes THROW AWAY products! What's
the lifetime of a 'crack'berry, 2-3 years?
Sure, RIM can use Pb-free processes (and no-clean) but I CANNOT! And that's
why I and Gordon Davy and Denny Fritz and I searched for a process to stop
tin whiskers. But we have no solution for all the other problems lead-free
causes. Wish we did!!
Nor can biomed, aerospace, telecom or many other critical life sustaining
industries tolerate lead-free processes and continue to have the same
reliablity.
I have no knowledge of whether or not Ron Lasky has made a fortune on this
fiasco, but he's not making things better for those of us in the high rel
industries when he makes outrageous statements such as what was said here.
Sincerely,
Bob Landman
H&L Instruments, LLC
LDF Coatings, LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
Richard,
I consider both you and Ron Lasky friends. I disagree with both him saying
it is a "grand success" (without qualification, more on that in a bit) and
you saying his opinion is motivated by greed.
I think I know Ron well enough to know it is not greed. I mean he is not
getting THAT much $ from Indium. :) All kidding aside, it would be against
his moral principles. I think you are too harsh in your comment.
For companies like I work for and many others in the commercial sector, it
has been a grand success, but, as you say, at a cost to the environment and
it has involved succeeding in a grand and fun and challenging scientific and
engineering endeavor. That surmounting of the struggle by those you named
and many others is the "grand success".
Finally, I think George Wenger said it best, I think this is close to a
direct quote: "One of the best things mankind has done environmentally is
ban tetraethyl lead. One of the worst things we have done is ban tin/lead
solder."
With that I close.
Bev
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
I have to agree with George Wenger, Scott Post and many others.
Irresponsible statements like "lead-free solder is a grand success" should
NOT be ignored. Those who make such statements in the face of all of the
contrary evidence should be noted, and treated as motivated only by greed.
Lead-free soldering certainly has been known for many "thousand$" of
successes.
I have learned that it is not even worth the bother to refute such
statements with those who make them. It may be a "grand success" for PhDs
who contract to solder paste companies, but it certainly has not been a
"grand success" to literally thousands of companies dealing with the
reliability elephant sitting in the room getting larger by the day, and the
associated fallout as a result.
It certainly has not been a success to the environment, because it created
many negative environmental impacts where there were none in the first
place. As a result of the tin mining issues, as well as billions of
additional kilowatt hours needed yearly to reflow the same products, and the
loss of reliability that goes hand-in-hand with the elimination of lead in
the solder joint, well, it certainly cannot be called anything close to a
"grand success".
And it certainly was very poorly planned and implemented. RoHS requirements
for lead-free solder were rammed through without any due diligence on the
part of the solder companies whatsoever. Ironically, we, an industry that
prides itself for its reliability assurance and quality standards and for
developing tools such as FMEA, 5 Whys, and other mistake-proofing methods
can only shake our heads in dismay and embarrassment from these
self-appointed "solder experts" who irresponsibly supported these changes
forced upon us by the EU, and are now standing at the pulpit and make such
claims as if they were directly responsible for this "Grand $ucce$$".
Indeed, if lead-free solder was a "grand success", it was only so because of
the humongous collective effort and the collaboration by the process
engineers and scientists and the true reliability experts within the
industry such as Werner Engelmaier, Craig Hillman, Dave Hillman, George
Wenger, and so many others who were able to identify and respond to all of
the issues, which extend well beyond just tin whiskers.
They were able to identify issues such as pad cratering, head-on-pillow,
shrinkage cracks, the exacerbation of Black Pad and Brittle nickel due to
the lack of lead and higher reflow and rework temperatures, copper
dissolution and de-wetting, non-homogeneous mixed-alloy BGA solder joints,
PWB issues and component reliability issues from reflow at higher lead-free
temperatures, and literally hundreds of other problems that popped up as a
result of lead-free solder and RoHS requirements in general.
If an engineer forced through changes like this in a process where I work,
without having done the due diligence and thorough qualification required,
he would have been fired.
Had not some of true experts been here to identify and solve these issues
that resulted from RoHS lead-free requirements, it would have been much more
of a fiasco and clusterfooey than it actually was and still is. Can you
imagine what something like this would have been like without the benefit of
these people and the Technet Forum?
Those in the Forum are the people I will listen to when they declare
anything as being a "grand success", not them other smart folks who don't
know a Metcal iron from a Hakko wand.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenger, George M.
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
It seems premature to state "lead-free solder is a grand success" with only
five years (July 2006 to July 2011) experience.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger
Senior Principal Reliability / FMA Engineer Andrew Corporation - Wireless
Network Solutions 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 Office (732) 309-8964 Mobile
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Christison
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Lead Free solder has performed well...
http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1389&doc_id=231199&f_src=des
ignnews_gnews
"Dr. Ronald Lasky, Dartmouth professor of engineering and a frequent blogger
on solder, claims the transition to lead-free was a grand success. "A lot of
people claim that lead-free solder is not as reliable as lead-based solder,"
Lasky told me. "We're now five years into the implementation of RoHS, and
we've made $3 trillion work of electronic.
We haven't really noticed any big change in reliability.""
I thought some of you may be interested in the above article.
Regards,
--
Eric Christison
Consumer& Micro group
Imaging Division
STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
33 Pinkhill
Edinburgh EH12 7BF
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0)131 336 6165
Fax: + 44 (0)131 336 6001
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