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Subject:
From:
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 2 May 2011 20:01:32 +0300
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"By authoring the standards (and making sure
that the key Western OEMs are active contributors), the US can ensure
a place at the international table far superior to the one our
depleted manufacturing base would otherwise allow."

Mike

I'm not sure that I like the above statement, although I may be 
misinterpreting it. As I read it, you are saying the USA is supreme, 
other Western states may put in the odd word here or there and that no 
other country should have any say in the matter. I hope I'm wrong. 
Standards that are applied internationally must be written with full 
international consensus, without any hint of a diktat by any one 
country. This is why we have such bodies as ISO, IEC etc., where the "I" 
says all.

I, too, have travelled and worked very extensively in Asia, cumulatively 
for many tens of months, practically everywhere in the triangle Mumbai, 
Java, Hokkaido, except Cambodia, Laos, Taiwan and the smaller Himalayan 
states. Much of my knowledge has been acquired or modified by these 
travels. I've seen manufacturing technology and know-how that are often 
unique, driven by a different mindset, as often as not. We have much to 
learn from our Asian colleagues, if we would only be sufficiently 
open-minded to do so. They can offer different approaches to 
reliability. Who are we to have the arrogance to say that our approach 
is any better than anyone else's?

In the same way as we don't have the monopoly on reliable electronics, 
the Asians don't have the monopoly on producing junk. I have seen, on 
both sides of the Atlantic, electronics that have resulted in massive 
and expensive recalls because of failures, often stupid ones.

Let he who is without sin...

Brian

On 02/05/2011 17:37, Mike Buetow wrote:
> The article's premise -- that standards drive up costs -- is stunning
> in that it completely mischaracterizes a core reason standards exist:
> to ensure widespread uniformity to a predefined level of quality.
> Indeed, as someone who has traveled extensively abroad (I have spent
> more nights in Shanghai than any city other than the ones I have
> actually lived in), I can unequivocally state that manufacturers in
> China, Taiwan, Malaysia and so forth use IPC-A-600 and IPC-A-610
> almost exclusively. And the reason is, those are the standards that
> their Western customers demand. Southeast Asia might offer lower
> labor rates, but that has nothing to do with IPC-A-610. As they used
> to tell me in stats class, correlation isn't causation. I'm surprised
> Dr. Smith's grad school teachers didn't drill that conceit into him.
>
> Having spent many a weekend in J-STD-001 meetings, I can state from
> experience that many defense contractors pushed to ease certain
> requirements in order both to save money and improve reliability. In
> one instance that springs to mind, Boeing provided ample evidence
> that minimum hole fill could be reduced because, they found, although
> a higher percentage of hole fill was seen as more reliable, in
> practice inspectors would have the rework technicians hit
> nonconforming holes with the solder gun, and the additional
> temperature excursion *reduced* long-term reliability more so than
> the greater volume of solder in the hole could increase it. These
> types of discussions don't show up in the final boxscore, but you
> can't understand the outcome of the game without knowing them.
>
> This indirectly raises a separate point, however, namely: that it is
> critical for the US to maintain control of the standards. As my old
> friend Dieter Bergman used to tell me, he who controls the minutes
> controls the meeting. By authoring the standards (and making sure
> that the key Western OEMs are active contributors), the US can ensure
> a place at the international table far superior to the one our
> depleted manufacturing base would otherwise allow.
>
> I think there's an editorial in here somewhere.
>
> Best, Mike
>
> Mike Buetow Circuits Assembly w/m 617-327-4702
>
>>>> The CIRCUITS ASSEMBLY EMS Directory -- over 2,100 listings, in
>>>> Excel  www.circuitsassembly.com/dems<<<
>
> Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/mikebuetow
>
> -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Woolley, Mark D. (Mark) Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:13
> AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] "The Curse of IPC-A-610 and
> IPC-J-STD-001" - opinion piece by James Smith
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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> E$&F'f vWB# fRW7֖7F"43BU R32S3#cbâvƖf6
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> 3##FF6WDpV&V7SDF7'62cBԢ5D" V6'W6F'F6 6'
> 7'7B 7V7f"twithstanding, I believe - and I've proposed this
> idea before - that
>
> there is a too slavish adherence to standards rather than to common
>
> sense. This is because the standards exist and are used but are not
>
> applicable to many applications which do not require top quality
>
> reliability. Just the unnecessary inspection is costly, let alone
> the
>
> afterwork. It reminds me of one of my ex-customers making a lab
>
> instrument that is used only in comfortable room conditions. He was
>
> getting a lot of cratering on his wired through-hole SJs after wave
>
> soldering, and he had personnel reworking these joints (which
>
> plop-plopped for several seconds of applying the soldering iron). I
>
> asked why and he told me that the joints were faulty. I rejoined
> with
>
> something like BS. He gave me a board full of craters but which was
>
> otherwise faulty and I did microsections of half-a dozen "faulty"
> SJs,
>
> all of which showed perfect intermetallic formation along both wire
> and
>
> through-hole plating, with the craters and blowholes outside the
>
> intermetallics. This persuaded my client that the "fault" was
> cosmetic
>
> and he stopped the retouching except on grossly obvious faults. From
>
> that moment, the number of returns was reduced. For pointing out to
> him
>
> that he was wasting money by a too-solicitous inspection and
> retouching,
>
> he presented me with a bottle of Neuchâtel Oeil de Perdrix, which
> was
>
> delicious.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, it was this case that inspired me to develop what
> became
>
> known as the "Plop-plop Meter" to measure the outgassing of PTHs.
> This
>
> never got beyond prototype stage, but it worked admirably and was
> able
>
> to distinguish between different causes of outgassing. However, I
> wasn't
>
> convinced that the market justified putting it into production; it
>
> remained a curiosity.
>
>
>
> In short, Standards, used appropriately, can help, as far as
> possible,
>
> to perfect reliability for a given application. Used
> inappropriately,
>
> they can drive up costs dramatically and with no justification; this
>
> could drive the manufacture to E. Asia, at the cost of jobs. Maybe
> the
>
> author was expressing this sentiment, albeit unscientifically and
> too
>
> clumsily.
>
>
>
> Let common sense prevail!
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> On 29/04/2011 19:15, Graham Collins wrote:
>
>> Anyone else read this?
>
>> http://www.assemblymag.com/Articles/Blog/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000
>
>>  001038283
>
>>
>
>> All I can say is "wow".  Well, I could go on for hours, but...
>> wow.
>
>> Not quite how I see these specs!  Working on military stuff I can
>> attest
>
>> that changing from MIL-STD-2000 to the IPC specs was a significant
>
>> improvement in reality, reliability, and productivity, but that's
>> not
>
>> how he sees it.
>
>>
>
>> regards,
>
>>
>
>> Graham Collins
>
>> Halifax Production Engineering
>
>> L-3 communications Electronic Systems
>
>> (902) 873-2000 ext. 6215
>
>>
>
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