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From:
"Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE)" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE)
Date:
Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:50:53 -0700
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A rose is rose to many men (excluding 2½), but the symbolism of what it represents, as in life doesn't necessarily come out in the wash.

Dewey

 

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 9:38 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

 

Brian,

I would not argue with you and would heartily concur.  But the original 

question related to a "requirement" to use DI water.  Your point that to 

meet cleanliness requirements you need DI water depends on how you look at 

it.  Since the only present requirement in J-STD-001 is the ROSE 

requirement, wide enough to drive a truck (or lorry for our UK friends) 

through, could probably be met with lesser quality water, but yet still 

fail in the field.  There have been a large number of companies who have 

relied on the ROSE values, only to have expensive recalls.

 

Doug Pauls

 

 

 

Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> 

Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>

04/25/2011 09:20 AM

Please respond to

TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to

Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>

 

 

To

<[log in to unmask]>

cc

 

Subject

Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doug

 

"But I don't believe that document ever states DI water use as a 

"requirement", but one that is strongly recommended."

 

I'll go along with this, but with a rider "if it can be economically 

justified. If not, the overall process must be very carefully qualified 

to ensure it meets technical requirements." or words to that effect. I 

suggest this because DI-ing water is not cheap and many here will 

testify that using tap water is OK ***under some conditions***.

 

I would also add a second rider, "Under no circumstances should softened 

water be used." and I'm even more categorical here as, in my former 

life, I have come across several cases where 2Na+ ions were more 

dangerous than Ca++ ions because of the high hygroscopicity and 

solubility of sodium salts.

 

Brian

 

On 25/04/2011 15:58, Douglas Pauls wrote:

> To the best of my knowledge, no where in IPC specifications is the use 

of

> deionized water "required" for cleaning processes.  I would agree that 

the

> use of DI water would be considered an industry best manufacturing

> practice.  We require its use in all our cleaning processes here.

> 

> Note that the IPC-A-62A is an older document.  All of the cleaning

> handbooks are being pulled together in the forthcoming CH-65 cleaning

> handbook, which should be issued in the next few months.  But I don't

> believe that document ever states DI water use as a "requirement", but 

one

> that is strongly recommended.

> 

> Doug Pauls

> 

> 

> 

> David Bealer<[log in to unmask]>

> Sent by: TechNet<[log in to unmask]>

> 04/25/2011 07:17 AM

> Please respond to

> TechNet E-Mail Forum<[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to

> David Bealer<[log in to unmask]>

> 

> 

> To

> <[log in to unmask]>

> cc

> 

> Subject

> Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Being that IPC-AC-62A is a handbook and that both sections you reference

> do not use the words "shall" or "must"; I would say that using DI rinse

> water is not a requirement, but best practice.

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Forrester, Michael

> (H USA)

> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:17 PM

> To: [log in to unmask]

> Subject: Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

> 

> Dave,

> 

>                   For water washable fluxes, where cleaning is required, 

is

> DI

> water REQUIRED per

> IPC?  IPC-AC-62A section 13.3 Final Rinse: implies DI water, section

> 10.6 I'm not

> sure what it implies. It states DI is preferred and then goes on to say

> it

> (refering to DI water) doesn't have to be ultra pure (18.2 MegOhm-cm)

> and that

> 1 to 5 MegOhm-cm is satisfactory. 1-5 MegOhm-cm DI water a min.

> REQUIREMENT?  I

> have one side saying IPC spec REQUIRES DI water and the other side

> saying IPC spec

> only recommends/prefers DI water.  It is basically a compliance issue.

> If DI water

> is not used in the aqueous wash is that a violation of IPC

> specifications?

> 

> Best Regards,

> 

> Michael Forrester

> Sr. Product Engineer

> CSMTPE

> 

> Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics

> 101 Silvermine Rd.

> Brookfield, CT  06804

> PH: (203) 740-6452

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: David Bealer [mailto:[log in to unmask]]

> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:56 PM

> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Forrester, Michael (H USA)

> Subject: RE: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

> 

> As I read IPC-610E; cleaning is not a requirement, as Flux residues from

> no-clean processes are acceptable for classes 1,2,&  3.

> 

> We require our assemblies to meet IPC class 2, however we separately

> require those same assemblies to meet specific cleanliness requirements

> because of the end use environment.  To meet those cleanliness

> requirements we use a water washable flux, and an inline recycling water

> wash system where the final rinse water is a minimum of 2Mohm.

> 

> BR,

> David Bealer  |  SMT Department Manager

> Phone: (217) 442-0611 ext. 6022  |  Fax: (217) 477-7134

> 

> Watchfire Signs by Time-O-Matic Inc.

> [log in to unmask]

> www.watchfiresigns.com

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Forrester, Michael

> (H USA)

> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:06 PM

> To: [log in to unmask]

> Subject: Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

> 

> What I'm trying to find out is do IPC specifications REQUIRE

> DI water?

> 

> Best Regards,

> 

> Michael Forrester

> Sr. Product Engineer

> CSMTPE

> 

> Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics

> 101 Silvermine Rd.

> Brookfield, CT  06804

> PH: (203) 740-6452

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Woolley, Mark D. (Mark) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]

> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:57 PM

> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Forrester, Michael (H USA)

> Subject: RE: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

> 

> Unless DI water is continuously cleanses and filtered, DI water will

> decrease in resistivity due to disolved CO2.  I believe that clean water

> without dissolved ions should be used for celaning, but it does not have

> to meet the DI water standard of 20Mohm resistivity as would be required

> for a wafer process.

> mark

> 

> 

> mark

> Mark Woolley |PTRL Laboratory | Avaya | 1300 West 120th Ave |

> Westminster, CO 80234  USA |

> Voice (Lab): (303) 538-2166 | email: [log in to unmask] |

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Forrester, Michael

> (H USA)

> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:36 PM

> To: [log in to unmask]

> Subject: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.

> 

> I have a question about aqueous wash.  There is a difference of opinion

> on what IPC REQUIRES as far as wash water.  The main issue is does IPC

> specifications REQUIRE or PREFER/RECOMMEND DI water for aqueous wash?

> 

> IPC-AC-62A I don't think is clear.   The spec in section 10.6 states:

> 

>              "Rinse Water Parameter: Good quality deionized water is the

> preferred rinse medium.  However, this is not meant to suggest that

> ultapure, 18.2 megohm-cm water is necessary. Water in the 1 to 5

> megohm-cm region will be satisfactory for most operations"

> 

> The same spec in section 13.3 states:

> 

> "Final Rinse: This cleaning step is where the board is subject to

> purified DI water rinse."

> 

> The PCBA print basically calls out build to IPC-610 class 2 and does not

> call out any specific cleaning specifications.  So, with all that said,

> Is it an IPC REQUIREMENT to use DI water for aqueous wash?  Thank you.

> 

> 

> 

> Best Regards,

> 

> Michael Forrester

> Sr. Product Engineer

> CSMTPE

> 

> Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics

> 101 Silvermine Rd.

> Brookfield, CT  06804

> PH: (203) 740-6452

> 

> 

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