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Subject:
From:
Douglas Pauls <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date:
Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:37:37 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
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Brian,
I would not argue with you and would heartily concur.  But the original 
question related to a "requirement" to use DI water.  Your point that to 
meet cleanliness requirements you need DI water depends on how you look at 
it.  Since the only present requirement in J-STD-001 is the ROSE 
requirement, wide enough to drive a truck (or lorry for our UK friends) 
through, could probably be met with lesser quality water, but yet still 
fail in the field.  There have been a large number of companies who have 
relied on the ROSE values, only to have expensive recalls.

Doug Pauls



Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> 
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
04/25/2011 09:20 AM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>


To
<[log in to unmask]>
cc

Subject
Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.






Doug

"But I don't believe that document ever states DI water use as a 
"requirement", but one that is strongly recommended."

I'll go along with this, but with a rider "if it can be economically 
justified. If not, the overall process must be very carefully qualified 
to ensure it meets technical requirements." or words to that effect. I 
suggest this because DI-ing water is not cheap and many here will 
testify that using tap water is OK ***under some conditions***.

I would also add a second rider, "Under no circumstances should softened 
water be used." and I'm even more categorical here as, in my former 
life, I have come across several cases where 2Na+ ions were more 
dangerous than Ca++ ions because of the high hygroscopicity and 
solubility of sodium salts.

Brian

On 25/04/2011 15:58, Douglas Pauls wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge, no where in IPC specifications is the use 
of
> deionized water "required" for cleaning processes.  I would agree that 
the
> use of DI water would be considered an industry best manufacturing
> practice.  We require its use in all our cleaning processes here.
>
> Note that the IPC-A-62A is an older document.  All of the cleaning
> handbooks are being pulled together in the forthcoming CH-65 cleaning
> handbook, which should be issued in the next few months.  But I don't
> believe that document ever states DI water use as a "requirement", but 
one
> that is strongly recommended.
>
> Doug Pauls
>
>
>
> David Bealer<[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: TechNet<[log in to unmask]>
> 04/25/2011 07:17 AM
> Please respond to
> TechNet E-Mail Forum<[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
> David Bealer<[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To
> <[log in to unmask]>
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Being that IPC-AC-62A is a handbook and that both sections you reference
> do not use the words "shall" or "must"; I would say that using DI rinse
> water is not a requirement, but best practice.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Forrester, Michael
> (H USA)
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.
>
> Dave,
>
>                   For water washable fluxes, where cleaning is required, 
is
> DI
> water REQUIRED per
> IPC?  IPC-AC-62A section 13.3 Final Rinse: implies DI water, section
> 10.6 I'm not
> sure what it implies. It states DI is preferred and then goes on to say
> it
> (refering to DI water) doesn't have to be ultra pure (18.2 MegOhm-cm)
> and that
> 1 to 5 MegOhm-cm is satisfactory. 1-5 MegOhm-cm DI water a min.
> REQUIREMENT?  I
> have one side saying IPC spec REQUIRES DI water and the other side
> saying IPC spec
> only recommends/prefers DI water.  It is basically a compliance issue.
> If DI water
> is not used in the aqueous wash is that a violation of IPC
> specifications?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Michael Forrester
> Sr. Product Engineer
> CSMTPE
>
> Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics
> 101 Silvermine Rd.
> Brookfield, CT  06804
> PH: (203) 740-6452
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Bealer [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:56 PM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Forrester, Michael (H USA)
> Subject: RE: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.
>
> As I read IPC-610E; cleaning is not a requirement, as Flux residues from
> no-clean processes are acceptable for classes 1,2,&  3.
>
> We require our assemblies to meet IPC class 2, however we separately
> require those same assemblies to meet specific cleanliness requirements
> because of the end use environment.  To meet those cleanliness
> requirements we use a water washable flux, and an inline recycling water
> wash system where the final rinse water is a minimum of 2Mohm.
>
> BR,
> David Bealer  |  SMT Department Manager
> Phone: (217) 442-0611 ext. 6022  |  Fax: (217) 477-7134
>
> Watchfire Signs by Time-O-Matic Inc.
> [log in to unmask]
> www.watchfiresigns.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Forrester, Michael
> (H USA)
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:06 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.
>
> What I'm trying to find out is do IPC specifications REQUIRE
> DI water?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Michael Forrester
> Sr. Product Engineer
> CSMTPE
>
> Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics
> 101 Silvermine Rd.
> Brookfield, CT  06804
> PH: (203) 740-6452
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Woolley, Mark D. (Mark) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:57 PM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Forrester, Michael (H USA)
> Subject: RE: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.
>
> Unless DI water is continuously cleanses and filtered, DI water will
> decrease in resistivity due to disolved CO2.  I believe that clean water
> without dissolved ions should be used for celaning, but it does not have
> to meet the DI water standard of 20Mohm resistivity as would be required
> for a wafer process.
> mark
>
>
> mark
> Mark Woolley |PTRL Laboratory | Avaya | 1300 West 120th Ave |
> Westminster, CO 80234  USA |
> Voice (Lab): (303) 538-2166 | email: [log in to unmask] |
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Forrester, Michael
> (H USA)
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:36 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Aqueous Wash, DI water and IPC Specifications.
>
> I have a question about aqueous wash.  There is a difference of opinion
> on what IPC REQUIRES as far as wash water.  The main issue is does IPC
> specifications REQUIRE or PREFER/RECOMMEND DI water for aqueous wash?
>
> IPC-AC-62A I don't think is clear.   The spec in section 10.6 states:
>
>              "Rinse Water Parameter: Good quality deionized water is the
> preferred rinse medium.  However, this is not meant to suggest that
> ultapure, 18.2 megohm-cm water is necessary. Water in the 1 to 5
> megohm-cm region will be satisfactory for most operations"
>
> The same spec in section 13.3 states:
>
> "Final Rinse: This cleaning step is where the board is subject to
> purified DI water rinse."
>
> The PCBA print basically calls out build to IPC-610 class 2 and does not
> call out any specific cleaning specifications.  So, with all that said,
> Is it an IPC REQUIREMENT to use DI water for aqueous wash?  Thank you.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Michael Forrester
> Sr. Product Engineer
> CSMTPE
>
> Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics
> 101 Silvermine Rd.
> Brookfield, CT  06804
> PH: (203) 740-6452
>
>
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