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Subject:
From:
"Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE)" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE)
Date:
Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:12:33 -0700
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text/plain
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text/plain (622 lines)
I've heard Space people get confused with spirits sometimes.
Dewey

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ahne Oosterhof
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 8:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating

No, just an empty glass. The whisky will have been consumed when he sees
those SPACE people.
Ahne.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 05:49
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating

with a whisky in the other hand?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thayer, Wayne - IIW" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating


Thanks for the insight.

If I'm ever threatened by SPACE people, I will be sure to have some Zinc

whiskers on hand!

-----Original Message-----
From: Inge [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 7:58 AM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Thayer, Wayne - IIW
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating

Dear Sir,
never heard of SPACE people's dread of Zinc whiskers? They are said  to
grow
even in vacuum. If these guys hear that one Zinc atom is on the run,
they
inhibit a flight (I exaggerate a little). Jay Brusse will gladly inform
you.
/Inge


----- Original Message -----
From: "Thayer, Wayne - IIW" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating


OK, I'll bite.  Why not SPACE?  No salt spray there.  Do some of the
brasses
grow whiskers?

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 3:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating

The brass family has indeed varying members with very differing
properties.
Take the cheap brass tabs on some batteries, for instance. A torchlight
which you forgot outdoors some nights may look bad on inside, not to
mention
if you had some leakage from the battery. In the other corner of the
ring
you may have a real heavyweighter. I designed a connector for a ATI
system
(Automatic Train In...something, have forgotten what). They are spread
all
over the world, have worked without problems for decades. Now, these
connectors are mounted on a glass fiber reinforced box, which is buried
in
the railroad embankment, between the rails. The connectors have
electronic
systems on inside. Imagine that environment!  After many, many tests, I
decided to use ..brass. With no finish. Had I become crazy? Not at all.
I
selected a 97% Cu with some 1% Zn, some 1 % Si and also added Lead and
Manganese  ingredients. With a Viton sealing, the inside looks like
fresh
when you unscrew the cap after 20 years. I don' t remember the name of
that
alloy longer, but it was also excellent to solder. I don't mean to
recommend
it to the interrogator, just want demonstrate what Dave pointed at, the
huge
brass family with so diverging characteristics. I have seen lots of
naked
brass applications in our and others products with exception for SPACE
ones.

Inge



----- Original Message -----
From: "David D. Hillman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating


> Hi Wayne - I have observed dezincification in less severe product use
> environments as a corrosive environment isn't always necessary.  Some
> brass alloys don't seem to be as impacted as others by the phenomena -
as
> Doug says "it depends" on the overall product use environment
parameters.
> As a matter of practice, we use copper or nickel underplates to avoid
the
> issue entirely.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> "Thayer, Wayne - IIW" <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> 09/21/2010 10:37 AM
> Please respond to
> TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
> "Thayer, Wayne - IIW" <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To
> [log in to unmask]
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating
>
>
>
>
>
>
> De-zincification is a problem only if subjected to a corrosive
environment
> or submerged in an electrolyte with other metals.  I doubt ImAg would
be
> sufficient to slow this process down.  I might want electroplated
nickel
> or tin for that.
>
> I've seen other posts on TechNet which panic over exposed brass, so I
did
> some long term tests with relatively high current densities and Pb
based
> solder--absolutely no issues.  And the dissolution rate of brass into
> molten solder appears to be at least as low as copper.
>
> If it's an outdoor location subjected to salt spray, I'd certainly
want it
> coated, but I see no reason why it should be looked at as more
susceptible
> to failure than standard leaded components (which will always be
conformal
> coated for harsh environments).
>
> Wayne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rex Waygood [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:30 AM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Thayer, Wayne - IIW
> Subject: RE: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating
>
> Does the ImAg stop de-zincification?
> Rex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Thayer, Wayne -
IIW
> Sent: 21 September 2010 16:22
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating
>
> Why nickel? I use ImAg over brass for lots of stuff around here.
Works
> great, but will tarnish over time.
>
> Wayne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Glidden, Kevin
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:38 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating
>
> OK, pardon the lack of knowledge, but why is that?  I also see
reference
> to nickel-boron platings, which supposedly improve both conductivity
and
> solderability for electronics applications.
>
> Is it recommended then that I need to apply gold over the EN on this
> electrical tab?  A portion of it is soldered (internally) and a
portion
> of it remains exposed for connection (think 120V plug tabs).  The base
> material is brass.
>
> Kevin Glidden
> Manufacturing Engineer
> Astronics Luminescent Systems Inc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vladimir Igoshev [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:24 AM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Glidden, Kevin
> Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating
>
> Kevin,
>
> You wouldn't want to solder directly to unprotected  E-Ni.
> Vladimir
>
> SENTEC Testing Laboratory Inc.
> 11 Canadian Road, Unit 7.
> Scarborough, ON M1R 5G1
> Tel: (416) 899-1882
> Fax: (905) 882-8812
> www.sentec.ca
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Glidden, Kevin" <[log in to unmask]>
> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:         Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:52:39
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>,
>        "Glidden, Kevin" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: [TN] Solderability of nickel plating
>
> All,
>
> Can anyone comment on the solderability of the nickel plate,
> particularly with regard to type of plating: high phosphor / low
> phosphor, and also storage conditions:
>
> I've been gathering info, and seen conflicting information.
>
>>From one article:
> http://corrosion-doctors.org/MetalCoatings/Electroless.htm
>
> A paper submitted at the Electroless Nickel conference of 1989 held in
> Cincinnati Ohio, Titled "Solderability Parameters of Elecroless Nickel
> Bearing Electronic Finishes" By Louis Kosarek of STB Systems, Inc.
> report that "An electroless nickel deposit which contains a
> concentration of phosphorus ranging from 0.1% to 3.0% is readily
> solderable on an "As-plated Basis" per Mil-Std 883c method 2003. The
> frequency of solderability tests which fail per Mil-Std 883c will
> increase as the phosphorus content of electroless nickel alloy
increases
> from 3.0 to 7.0% phosphorus. A solderability test conducted per
Mil-Std
> 883c method 2003 incorporating an as-plated surface finish containing
> phosphorus in excess of 7%, the components will consistently fail. The
> mode of failure is non-wetting of the surface."
> This indicates low phosphorous plating is best for solderability.
Many
> other papers seem to agree with this.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>>From another article: http://www.pfonline.com/articles/pfd0024.html
>
> Solderability/Weldability.  An important aspect of electroless nickel
to
> the electronics industry is its solderability. All electroless nickel
> deposits are solderable provided the soldering conditions are matched
to
> the condition of the particular electroless nickel deposit.
> Lower-phosphorus electroless nickel is more easily solderable
> immediately after plating than higher-phosphorus electroless nickel.
> However, this advantage disappears after 12 - 24 hrs. At this point,
the
> ease of solderability depends upon the characteristics of the passive
> layer that forms on the surface of the electroless nickel deposit.
Those
> deposits plated from baths containing heavy metal and sulfur-bearing
> brighteners and stabilizers, such as most commercial low- and
> mid-phosphorus electroless nickel systems, form a thicker tenacious
> passive layer than those that do not, such as most high-phosphorus
> electroless nickel systems. High-phosphorus electroless nickel systems
> tend to be more solderable in aged deposits.
>
> Other important factors influencing the solderability of electroless
> nickel deposits include residual contamination left on the surface
after
> plating and storage conditions after drying. Surface contamination and
> exposure to environments containing sulfur dioxide, chlorine, high
> humidity and high ambient temperatures will detrimentally affect
> solderability. Therefore, it is imperative that parts be thoroughly
> rinsed in clean DI water, dried and stored in a cool, dry atmosphere,
> preferably nitrogen.
> This article indicates high phosphorous plating is best for long term
> solderability, and also that parts must be stored carefully (cool,
dry,
> sealed, nitrogen).  Other articles seem to state this is a highly
stable
> finish and is even used as a corrosion inhibitor.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Kevin Glidden
> Manufacturing Engineer
> Astronics Luminescent Systems Inc.<http://www.astronics.com>
> 4 Lucent Drive
> Lebanon, NH 03766
> (603) 643-7766 x3152
>
> Please note, LSI operates on a 9/80 work schedule, and is closed on
> alternating Fridays.  Please click the link provided to view the days
> LSI will be closed.
> http://www.astronics.com/LSI/documents/2010calendar-NH.pdf
>
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