Inge, Inge—how parochial------$$$$$£££££€€€€€etcetcetcetcetc.
----but you should know by now, calling for help up front is ALWAYS much cheaper than initially to try 'durchwurschteln' (what is the Swedish equivalent for this?—have not found a good English one, 'muddle through' does not do it justice.).'
Werner
-----Original Message-----
From: Inge <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C
-------engage a consultant like me........
........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !!
Inge
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Werner Engelmaier" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: den 13 April 2010 10:24
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C
> Hi John,
> Commercial labs do not interpret—they only tell you whether or not the > product is within spec.
> For the interpretation of their results and the determination of the > underlying root cause(s) you need to engage a consultant like me— maybe > you want to be an independent consultant.
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Burke <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 1:08 pm
> Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C
>
>
> And of course when anything goes wrong - (and this is not new - it has > been
> my experience over the last 30 years) you have a finger pointing game
> between the suppliers which generally consist of:
>
> The solder manufacturer
> The contract manufacturer
> The PCB house
> The designer
>
> The solder manufacturer will point at the CM profile as a first strike and
> then at the board manufacturer as a backup.
> The board manufacturer will point at the solder manufacturer and the CM
> profile as a dual first strike.
> The CM will point at the board, the solder and (sometimes) the design.
> The designer will point to a dozen other assemblies with the same > footprints
> that do not have the problem.
>
> A good business to be in would be an independent FA lab..........
>
>
> John Burke
> (408) 515 4992
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gregg Owens
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:00 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C
>
> Pete:
>
> Your "rant" could easily be extended to every area of PCBA manufacturing.
> The rise of PCBA assemblies houses in the 1980s are examples of how
> management has tried to save upfront costs only to pay more in the end > with
> longer lead times. This is not to say assembly houses are "bad" but it
> transferred the electronics manufacturing process away from the very > people
> who would be installing and using the PCBAs - the end users. This business
> model has created lots more finger pointing between end users and the > board
> and assembly houses because the end users no longer retain the experience
> necessary to clearly determine whether the root cause of a problem is > design
> or process related. Then this century throw in lead-free and you end up > with
> lots of folks working very hard in this industry but with all too great
> ignorance of the materials and processes they are using, all the while
> trying to keep quarterly profits in a positive position. I will now get > off
> my soap box.
>
> Gregg Owens
> Technical Writer - Avionics
> Space Exploration Technologies Corporation
> (310) 363-6533
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:19 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C
>
> Bob, I'm in a rather similar situation. A company of 3000+, R&D locations
> on 3 continents and 2 islands. I am the sole remaining PCB designer.
>
> To answer your questions first:
>
> 1. We have a set of company specific design standards, mostly to make > sure
> the data we receive is compatible with MRP and CAM standards, and it makes
> it easier for me to pick up the "finished" job and, well, finish it. But > we
> don't keep a standard agreement, as the services we require change based > on
> the design.
>
> 2. If a company can not deliver what we have asked for, either during or > at
> the end, they don't get paid. In a situation such as yours, a mutual
> agreement to terminate the effort, we would pay them for the part of the
> work we can use, whatever did meet parts of the agreement. This has
> happened before.
>
> now the rant:
>
> We laid off all the designers but me. We send the work to China, using
> engineers with no PCB experience whatsoever, to do design and > documentation.
> Their cost is 1/3 of ours. It takes them 3x as long to deliver a design.
> Between the time I spend getting them started and correcting after, I > spend
> 1.5x what it would take to do the design myself. To Sr.
> management, this is cost savings. Lately, we have been contacting one of
> the designers we laid off. We pay him almost what it cost when he was
> employed here. And again, add in my time, so we're about even now. That
> works well, except that he has another full time job, so turn time is
> longer.
> And since I am stretched so thin, there have been errors - costly errors,
> and reduced manufacturability.
>
> Here's hoping the new "Undercover Boss" TV series starts opening some > eyes.
>
> Pete
>
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