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April 2010

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Subject:
From:
Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:24:13 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (182 lines)
 Hi John,
Commercial labs do not interpret—they only tell you whether or not the product is within spec.
For the interpretation of their results and the determination of the underlying root cause(s) you need to engage a consultant like me— maybe you want to be an independent consultant.
Werner

 


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Burke <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C


And of course when anything goes wrong - (and this is not new - it has been
my experience over the last 30 years) you have a finger pointing game
between the suppliers which generally consist of:

The solder manufacturer
The contract manufacturer
The PCB house
The designer

The solder manufacturer will point at the CM profile as a first strike and
then at the board manufacturer as a backup.
The board manufacturer will point at the solder manufacturer and the CM
profile as a dual first strike.
The CM will point at the board, the solder and (sometimes) the design.
The designer will point to a dozen other assemblies with the same footprints
that do not have the problem.

A good business to be in would be an independent FA lab.......... 


John Burke
(408) 515 4992


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gregg Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C

Pete:

Your "rant" could easily be extended to every area of PCBA manufacturing.
The rise of PCBA assemblies houses in the 1980s are examples of how
management has tried to save upfront costs only to pay more in the end with
longer lead times. This is not to say assembly houses are "bad" but it
transferred the electronics manufacturing process away from the very people
who would be installing and using the PCBAs - the end users. This business
model has created lots more finger pointing between end users and the board
and assembly houses because the end users no longer retain the experience
necessary to clearly determine whether the root cause of a problem is design
or process related. Then this century throw in lead-free and you end up with
lots of folks working very hard in this industry but with all too great
ignorance of the materials and processes they are using, all the while
trying to keep quarterly profits in a positive position. I will now get off
my soap box. 

Gregg Owens
Technical Writer - Avionics
Space Exploration Technologies Corporation
(310) 363-6533


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C

Bob, I'm in a rather similar situation.  A company of 3000+, R&D locations
on 3 continents and 2 islands.  I am the sole remaining PCB designer.

To answer your questions first:

1.  We have a set of company specific design standards, mostly to make sure
the data we receive is compatible with MRP and CAM standards, and it makes
it easier for me to pick up the "finished" job and, well, finish it.  But we
don't keep a standard agreement, as the services we require change based on
the design.

2. If a company can not deliver what we have asked for, either during or at
the end, they don't get paid.  In a situation such as yours, a mutual
agreement to terminate the effort, we would pay them for the part of the
work we can use, whatever did meet parts of the agreement.  This has
happened before.

now the rant:

We laid off all the designers but me.  We send the work to China, using
engineers with no PCB experience whatsoever, to do design and documentation.
Their cost is 1/3 of ours.  It takes them 3x as long to deliver a design.
Between the time I spend getting them started and correcting after, I spend
1.5x what it would take to do the design myself.  To Sr. 
management, this is cost savings.  Lately, we have been contacting one of
the designers we laid off.  We pay him almost what it cost when he was
employed here.  And again, add in my time, so we're about even now.  That 
works well, except that he has another full time job, so turn time is
longer.   
And since I am stretched so thin, there have been errors - costly errors,
and reduced manufacturability.  

Here's hoping the new "Undercover Boss" TV series starts opening some eyes.

Pete

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