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April 2010

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Subject:
From:
Robert Kondner <[log in to unmask]>
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Date:
Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:10:55 -0400
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Gregg,

 In house vs out house assembly is a very interesting subject for me. I like
being able to quickly put together 1 to 100 boards, that's great. But Good
machines, good equipment and good people are expensive and 100 pieces is a
pretty small run. Above 100 pieces (maybe 500 for some jobs) you just can
not compete with out side folks.  

 Quality means good machine and good people, both are very expensive.

 I just have a hard time justifying in house assembly for anything other
than protos.

 I am open to ideas. 

Bob Kondner


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gregg Owens
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C

Pete:

Your "rant" could easily be extended to every area of PCBA manufacturing.
The rise of PCBA assemblies houses in the 1980s are examples of how
management has tried to save upfront costs only to pay more in the end with
longer lead times. This is not to say assembly houses are "bad" but it
transferred the electronics manufacturing process away from the very people
who would be installing and using the PCBAs - the end users. This business
model has created lots more finger pointing between end users and the board
and assembly houses because the end users no longer retain the experience
necessary to clearly determine whether the root cause of a problem is design
or process related. Then this century throw in lead-free and you end up with
lots of folks working very hard in this industry but with all too great
ignorance of the materials and processes they are using, all the while
trying to keep quarterly profits in a positive position. I will now get off
my soap box. 

Gregg Owens
Technical Writer - Avionics
Space Exploration Technologies Corporation
(310) 363-6533


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Contract PCB Design Services T&C

Bob, I'm in a rather similar situation.  A company of 3000+, R&D locations
on 3 
continents and 2 islands.  I am the sole remaining PCB designer.

To answer your questions first:

1.  We have a set of company specific design standards, mostly to make sure 
the data we receive is compatible with MRP and CAM standards, and it makes 
it easier for me to pick up the "finished" job and, well, finish it.  But we
don't 
keep a standard agreement, as the services we require change based on the 
design.

2. If a company can not deliver what we have asked for, either during or at 
the end, they don't get paid.  In a situation such as yours, a mutual 
agreement to terminate the effort, we would pay them for the part of the 
work we can use, whatever did meet parts of the agreement.  This has 
happened before.

now the rant:

We laid off all the designers but me.  We send the work to China, using 
engineers with no PCB experience whatsoever, to do design and 
documentation.  Their cost is 1/3 of ours.  It takes them 3x as long to
deliver 
a design.  Between the time I spend getting them started and correcting 
after, I spend 1.5x what it would take to do the design myself.  To Sr. 
management, this is cost savings.  Lately, we have been contacting one of 
the designers we laid off.  We pay him almost what it cost when he was 
employed here.  And again, add in my time, so we're about even now.  That 
works well, except that he has another full time job, so turn time is
longer.   
And since I am stretched so thin, there have been errors - costly errors,
and 
reduced manufacturability.  

Here's hoping the new "Undercover Boss" TV series starts opening some eyes.

Pete

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