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April 2010

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Subject:
From:
Robert Kondner <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Date:
Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:33:53 -0400
Content-Type:
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Joyce,

  Selection of Paste and Rework Material is part of Design?  Let define
Design of what.

1. Design of schematic. No
2. Design of PCB. No. 
3. Design of manufacturing process? Should be but seldom happens.

 If someone is going to run 100K cell phones or other large order system
then yes, I would hope the material and rework process are all considered in
the design of the manufacturing process. That's an area of the business
where I am not involved. 

 I am closer to the circuit design side of the business and I can absolutely
assure you that many EEs or PCB Designers have never even seen paste on a
stencil. Most CMs I have talked to have an existing process that they Tweak
when something does not work. When we do this in the software area it is
called hacking. It is not design.

 Maybe I am just a grumpy, burned out EE who wrote too much software related
to PCB assembly. But I consider most (I did not say all) assembly houses to
be lacking in process design. 

 Very large (> $100M) companies I don't know. But the houses I have seen
running boards in lots of 1K or less have not impressed me.

 Tell me I am wrong. I am open to ideas.

Thanks,
Bob Kondner

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flux-Cored Wire Solder: Halide / Halide-Free

Correct me if I am wrong.  Select paste and any rework repair material and
process is part of design.  The designer select all the devices in platform
or generation format and draft BOM with termination finishing (with possible
alternatives), and looked the key components thermal restriction
requirement, and select required paste activity and possible rework times,
temp. Solder wire or method.  (Also may decide it just better to throw
away).  It also be the part of master plan for testing on what.% fault you
want to repair and which field return forecast as a write offs.  The
question should be post to design group, not here.  
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry


----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Kondner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 09:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Flux-Cored Wire Solder: Halide / Halide-Free

Yes But,

 If you buy everything from one manufacturer and there is a problem do you
really expect them to say:

  "Yes, It is my problems, I will fix it." ?

 If you think that would you like to buy a big bridge in New York City?  :-)

  If you can get what you need at a reasonable price from a single supplier
go for it. But various real world issues seldom make that possible.

Bob Kondner



-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:05 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flux-Cored Wire Solder: Halide / Halide-Free

Not only that, but it is inevitable that manufacturer X will blame the 
product of manufacturer Y, should you ever run into any trouble.

Brian

Karen Tellefsen wrote:
> Do solder manufacturers actually develop products to be used together by
> matching chemistries?
> 
> Sometimes.
> 
> Should one attempt to utilize paste, wire, and liquid flux all from a
> single supplier, or is there no value there, in that an ORH0 is an ORH0 is
> an ORH0?
> 
> The advantage using one vendors chemistries is that the vendor may have
> tested the materials together and can provide compatability/reliability
> data.   If you use chemistries from different vendors, you'll have to do
> any compatability testing yourself.
> 
> Karen Tellefsen - Electrical Testing
> [log in to unmask]
> 908-791-3069
> 
> 
> 
>

>              "Glidden, Kevin"

>              <Kevin.Glidden@as

>              tronics.com>                                               To

>                                        TechNet E-Mail Forum

>              04/20/2010 06:56          <[log in to unmask]>, Karen Tellefsen

>              AM                        <[log in to unmask]>

>                                                                         cc

>

>                                                                    Subject

>                                        RE: [TN] Flux-Cored Wire Solder:

>                                        Halide / Halide-Free

>

>

>

>

>

>

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Karen and Guy,
> 
> Thanks for the responses.  I like the looks of the Aqualine...
> 
> But, more questions comes to mind.....
> 
> Do solder manufacturers actually develop products to be used together by
> matching chemistries?
> 
> Should one attempt to utilize paste, wire, and liquid flux all from a
> single supplier, or is there no value there, in that an ORH0 is an ORH0 is
> an ORH0?
> 
> For example, in some wire solder data sheets you will see statements that
> it uses the same flux chemistry as either a paste or a liquid flux from
the
> same manufacturer.  But on the other hand, I have seen manufacturers state
> that the compatible flux with a given paste in product X, but then the
> datasheet for product X states it was developed with the same chemistry as
> a completely different paste.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kevin Glidden
> Manufacturing Engineer
> Astronics Luminescent Systems Inc.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen Tellefsen [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 4:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Flux-Cored Wire Solder: Halide / Halide-Free
> 
> Aqualine 6000 is halide-free, ORH0.  Must be washed, washable in hot DI
> water.
> 
> Karen Tellefsen - Electrical Testing
> [log in to unmask]
> 908-791-3069
> 
> 
> 
> 
>              "Guy M. Ramsey"
>              <gramsey@RDCIRCUI
>              TS.COM>                                                    To
>              Sent by: TechNet          [log in to unmask]
>              <[log in to unmask]>                                          cc
> 
>                                                                    Subject
>              04/19/2010 02:42          Re: [TN] Flux-Cored Wire Solder:
>              PM                        Halide / Halide-Free
> 
> 
>              Please respond to
>               TechNet E-Mail
>                    Forum
>              <[log in to unmask]>
>              ; Please respond
>                     to
>               "Guy M. Ramsey"
>              <gramsey@RDCIRCUI
>                   TS.COM>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amtech makes a wire core solder with Halide free watersoluble flux. You
> should
> clean it but it cleans fairly easily. If you are looking to change your
> cleaning
> process, I recommend you look at it. We clean it with a spot steam
cleaner.
> 
> 
> If you are staying with alcohol you cannot use it.
> 
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