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March 2010

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Subject:
From:
Dean Stadem <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Date:
Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:54:19 -0600
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Military customers will continue to say no, because hand soldering with
no-clean fluxes is a dangerous process for the reasons mentioned in this
thread; unlike no-clean solder paste which is completely or mostly
inerted due to reflow temperatures all across the board, benchtop liquid
no-clean flux typically is overapplied, and very little of it is heated
and therefore inerted from the tip of a solder iron.
This is why I stated in my earlier posting that if it has to be done,
only a felt-tip applicator should be used, and even then it is a very
dangerous practice from a reliability standpoint. Even though it is not
a very good cleaning process, localized cleaning of the no-clean residue
is better than not cleaning it up at all.

R. Dean Stadem
Consulting Engineer
Analog Technologies Corp./Lumagine, Inc.
11441 Rupp Drive
Burnsville, MN 55431
(952)894-9228
[log in to unmask]


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 5:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coat Over No-Clean Flux

I'm working with equipments that are going to live for 10 or up to 20
years.
CC can be a risk by closing in small ionic particles, which will sleep
like
virus for years, and suddenly wake up when the conditions change to
their
favor. We cannot be without CC, but cleanliness has to be at top always.
Luckily, we are payed to keep that costly cleaning process alive every
day.
No doubt the No Clean saves money, but I doubt they will come to the
same
failure free level. We have proposed NC, but our MIL customers use to
say
no.

Inge



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roberts, Jon (SA-1)" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: den 4 March 2010 15:04
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coat Over No-Clean Flux

> We use Humiseal UV40. I thought that out, but have no data to support
it
> success or failure with regards to coating over a no clean flux used
for
> attaching through hole components that cannot go through a wash.
>
> Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David D. Hillman
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:38 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coat Over No-Clean Flux
>
> And Doug forgot one of our favorite quotes  - " Experience is what you
> get
> right after you need it "
>
> Dave Hillman
> Rockwell Collins
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> Douglas Pauls <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> 03/04/2010 04:17 PM
> Please respond to
> TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> To
> [log in to unmask]
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [TN] Conformal Coat Over No-Clean Flux
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt, the Technet forum tis a great thing.  I seem to recall us
> discussing this issue at length about a year or so ago.  I suspect
that
> if
>
> you search the archives, you would find the thread.
>
> Along the lines of what you ask.  While Rockwell does use low residues
> fluxes (low residue is a flux, no-clean is a process) and we clean
them,
>
> we also have a very successful "reduced clean" where we solder on
parts
> that are either intolerant to our water wash process or it is "bloody
> inconvenient (I am feeling British this afternoon).  We often
> conformallly
>
> coat over those residues, usually Alpha Telecore Plus or Kester 245
> )both
> ROL0), successfully with Humiseal 1B31 acrylic or Humiseal 1H20AR1
> acrylic-urethane.  I know that you are looking at using urethanes, but
> don't use those very often.
>
> Anyone who knows Hillman or I know we test the crap out something
before
>
> we ever allow it on product, so we looked at combinations of cored
wire
> flux with additive fluxes, and the resultant combinations with the
> coatings, mostly the solvents in the coatings which would have a
> tendency
> to soak into the residues, potentially altering the chemical nature of
> the
>
> resulting mix.
>
> I think that you will largely find that solvent based coatings, such
as
> one part urethanes or acrylics generally adhere pretty well to low
> solids
> flux residues, but again, depends on the flux.
>
> I can and does work, but like anything, ya gotta do the testing, test
> drive the car, kick the tires, etc.
>
> If'n ya knows what yur doin', life is great.  If not, experience is an
> expensive educator, but often very thorough.
>
> Doug Pauls
>
>
>
> Ken Bloomquist <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> 03/04/2010 03:38 PM
> Please respond to
> TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
> Ken Bloomquist <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To
> [log in to unmask]
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [TN] Conformal Coat Over No-Clean Flux
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Doug,
>
> One of the great things about the TechNet is the traction you can get
> from
> the efforts of people who have gone before. While I know that "good"
> testing
> is required for every application I was hoping that I would here
> something
> like; "I had great results using a Xylene based Polyurethane moisture
> cure
> coating over ROLO no-clean flux." Or "I tried Xylene based
Polyurethane
> moisture cure coating over ROLO no-clean flux and it was a disaster!"
>
> I know that my application will be a little different than anyone
else's
>
> and
> require testing but was just hoping for a baseline.
>
> KennyB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Pauls [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 1:42 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coat Over No-Clean Flux
>
> Jon,
> While that is true, that only relates to the compatibility between
> fluxes.
>
>
> Seldom do you have flux vendors also providing coatings.  It is the
> product of the combined flux residues with the coating, especially the
> solvent carrier, that you have to watch out for.
>
> Doug Pauls
>
>
>
>
>
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