TECHNET Archives

March 2010

TechNet@IPC.ORG

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:15:04 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (160 lines)
There are several aspects of this topic which deal with good design  
practices which, I trust, are germain to this forum.  In particular  
the board design of the Prius multiple function display, it's  
connectors, CE bus and hairline cracks in the RoHS solder.

> As so many of you have requested the Toyota documents, I set up a  
> web folder at this link http://www.hlinstruments.com//RoHS_articles/
>
> They are in the Toyota folder.
>
> If you find other articles on this subject, please send me the links  
> or the articles and I'll add them to the folder.
>
> -Bob Landman/H&L Instruments, LLC
>
> I'm not an expert on automobiles.  FYI, I have two cars, a 2007  
> Volvo XC70 and a 1992 Jaguar XJ6.  No Toyotas.  Yes, I know the Jag  
> has Lucas electrics aka "Home before dark" :-) but it's been very  
> reliable (has over 100,000 miles on it). British Racing Green is the  
> color (of course).  I added the leaping jaguar to the hood; goes  
> much faster now :-)  Used to have a 1953 Aston Martin DB2 but that's  
> a story for another day.
>
> Note to John Burke:  Be VERY careful about installing a "KILL"  
> switch in your Toyotas!  If you shut off the engine fuel you'll lose  
> power steering.

> It seems to me from studying Dr. Gilbert's report, what you could do  
> (and this will take testing) is to have the switch disable the  
> signals from the ECM (electronic control module) to the servo that  
> increases fuel flow.  You want to keep the engine running, you just  
> want to stop the acceleration.
>
> http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-pedals/ 
>   (good pictures of the pedal assemblies)
>
> Video of a discussion about the assembly http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/29/video-in-depth-look-at-toyotas-sticky-accelerator/#continued 
>  (keep in mind this is an early video as it states the recall is  
> just 2 million vehicles and now we are over 8 million vehicles being  
> recalled.
>
> Professor Gilbert’s preliminary report describes the conditions he u 
> sed to introduce a “resistive short” within a Toyota Accelerator  
> Pedal Position
> (APP) sensor so as to produce unintended acceleration. Downloaded it  
> from http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/Preliminary_Report022110.pdf 
>   to the web folder.
>
> My, how nice of Toyota to actually video demonstrate Gilbert’s proce 
> ss for the world to see (see Part II below). How lovely of them to s 
> tate that to produce Gilbert’s scenario requires an ohmic short of s 
> ome 200 ohms to 1000 ohms.  And then lovelier still for them to illu 
> strate how “resistive shorts” intentionally introduced in a  
> number of APP modules used in different make of car can result in th 
> e same kind of unintended acceleration.
>
> Marvelous!!!!
>
> But how foolish Toyota looks, don't you agree, as they proclaim that  
> Gilbert’s scenario cannot possibly happen in their products? Trying  
> to make it seem as if a “resistive short” from 200 ohms or so  
> cannot exist.  We know that's utter nonsense and it reflects badly o 
> n Toyota, don't you think?
>
> Judge for yourselves what level of incompetence Toyota is displaying  
> in this rebuttal video.
>
> Part II    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWr2EuyZ_h4&NR=1  (start  
> with this to witness laboratory induced unintended acceleration)
>
> Part I     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkWhkU4coa4
>
> ========================
>
> I stumbled onto something on Google. A detailed analysis of the  
> failed display unit on a Prius.  Its an excellent article as it  
> dives deep into what's in todays' automotive electronics.  The  
> writer ultimately finds the problem and fixes it.  Toyota wanted  
> $2000+ for a replacement unit (as the writers unit was out of  
> warranty).  Do you think that's a fair price?  Read the article and  
> decide for yourself.  Hint: RoHS is likely the cause.
>
> I found this article http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/mfd/compare.html
>
> Which lead me to this http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/ 
> mfd/  titled "Evaluation and repair of a failed Prius MFD"
>
> The writer added this http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/mfd/compare.html
>
> This is the Prius chat forum
> http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-care-maintenance-troubleshooting/33923-mfd-issues-04-05-prius.html
>
> I searched on the forum for "acceleration" and found 259 postings!
> http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-care-maintenance-troubleshooting/61226-help-diagnosing-unintended-uncommanded-acceleration-issue.html
>
> this article was at the top "Diagnosing Unintended/Uncommanded  
> Acceleration Issue"
>
> My 2006 Prius (pkg 8) has on several occasions decided to accelerate  
> on its own. This always happens when the car is stopped. Lifting my  
> foot from the brake causes the car to accelerate as fast as it can.  
> Up until yesterday I wasn't totally sure my senses weren't lying. I  
> had read a couple of articles where people complained of this  
> problem. In the earlier cases, I was stoped at a flow control light  
> on a freeway ramp, so the rapid acceleration wasn't a problem and  
> when I stepped on the gas, it stopped.
>
> Yesterday I was on a surface street and stopped at a light. When I  
> gently lifted my foot from the brake to start the car rolling, the  
> car revved the ICE and acted as though I had floored the accelerator  
> (my foot was still on the brake and I hadn't released full pressure  
> yet. When I pushed hard on the brake, the car stoped and the ICE  
> stopped reving, repeating gently easing up on the brake made the  
> same thing happen again.
>
> Needless to say, I was getting concnerned. I tried shifting to  
> neutral (no
> deal) and finally turned the cruise control on and then off (it was  
> off).
> This stopped the acceleration. I have made a service appointment,  
> but the dealer claims they never heard of this problem before.
>
> I did some research on the Web (search Prius unintended acceleration
> incidents) and discovered this has happened more than a few times  
> for others. According to my reading, Toyota has denied the problem  
> and claimed the floor mat was pressing on the gas. In my case, the  
> first thing I did is check my mat (heavy rubber that never moves)  
> and it was safely tucked under the pedals.
>
> If there is a fix for this, I haven't seen mention of it. I did  
> report it to the NHTSA. I will report on the dealer's response. In  
> the meantime be aware this has been happening on 2004 - 2008 cars.  
> Some of the reports claim it is a cruise control issue. Who knows?
>
> I will be most interested to see how Toyota responds.
>
> ====================
>
> Bob Landman
> H&L Instruments, LLC
>
>
>
>

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] 
______________________________________________________________________

---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------

ATOM RSS1 RSS2