Bob,
I strongly urge you to contact Richardson Electronics in Plymouth, MN.
They manufacture custom monitors and CRTs of all types. GD uses them,
and they make very high quality medical, commercial, and military grade
monitors. We have never had one of their products fail. Incredible
reliability. They really know what they are doing.
Talk to Ann Bloch or Dave Sorensen.
http://www.rell.com/Pages/Product-Category.aspx?productCategory=8
R. Dean Stadem
Consulting Engineer
Analog Technologies Corp./Lumagine, Inc.
11441 Rupp Drive
Burnsville, MN 55431
(952)894-9228
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bob Landman
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances proposed for
REACH control
Robin,
Thanks SO much for this information as we have several monitors that
need repair. In years to come we will have more as over time the
brightness decreases and the CRT needs to be replaced. We modify the
monitors for our needs and they are fitted into a custom cabinet.
We began using RCA back in 1985. They sold to Burle who then quit the
business at the time CEMark was required. So we looked for a new
supplier and, no surprise, the only vendor was Philips in Holland. When
we asked for the construction file ( a CE requirement for us, I was
given to understand, they refused, as did every vendor who CEMarked).
Another confusing EU reg.
Then Philips quit production, selling the business to Siemens. With
each each new vendor, the case dimensions changed so the custom
enclosure had to be redesigned.
I just Googled for B/W 9" analog monitors again and saw that Pelco is
trying to fill backorders. My buyer is now trying to get some of them.
I see that there is now a company in China making a 10.4" LCD analog
monitor so I'm going to see if we can use it. Close enough to 9" (we
hope).
Why go to all this trouble? We've been making our product since 1985
and our customers expect us to keep them working. We have had a 20 year
life with our products with just an occasional repair for wear and tear.
Until all fhese new regulations came out, we could do that with ease.
I'm sure I'm not the only industrial instrument supplier who's having to
deal with these issues.
Joe Fjelstad has pointed out in his article, reliability does matter
http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_67238.shtml
He's got it exactly right and it's damned frustrating for companies like
mine to no longer be assured we can provide long lasting products for as
Joe said:
"The reliability of those products was for many years, unquestioned and
was the cornerstone of the industry's success. However, over the last
decade or so, the electronics industry has been slowly sliding off its
once sturdy foundation as evidence builds that newer generations of
products are proving less reliable than the ones that preceded them."
"For those readers not old enough to remember it, there once was a time
when electronic products were designed and expected to last for as long
as 20 to 25 years and hopefully more. It is more than a little bit
evident that consumer choice and expectations have undergone some
significant changes in recent times."
"Where in the past, a product was designed for function and reliability,
emphasis has shifted more towards trendiness and fashion relative to
electronic products with myriad features that often go unused.
Unfortunately, those are treated in the same cavalier manner as clothing
fashions, good for this season but not the next."
"The electronics industry has even adopted terminology which reflects
this with terms like "application specific reliability" now part of the
electronics industry lexicon."
"The roots of this disturbing trend actually run deep back in time, more
than 75 years to the Great Depression. The concept of planned
obsolescence was the forerunner of what we see in operation today."
Amen Joe, amen.
Bob Landman
H&L Instruments, LLC
________________________________
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Robin Ingenthron
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:02 PM
To: Bob Landman
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances proposed for
REACH control
Bob, on CRTs there is good news and bad news.
The good news: The 9" CRTs are still being refurbished by companies
like VideoDisplay Corp of Tucker GA USA, and several other factories in
Indonesia, Malaysia, and China
<http://retroworks.blogspot.com/2010/03/indonesia-crt-recycling-factory.
html> . When a rare size like 9" is discontinued but still in demand,
it makes it less expensive to collect it for recycling.
The bad news: Environmentalists are protesting the CRT refurbishing
factories,
<http://retroworks.blogspot.com/2010/03/basel-action-networks-legacy-pov
erty.html> major mis-understood story in Boston Globe last week, an
enviro group BAN.org reported CRTs shipped to one of these factories as
"hazardous waste" and 9 containerloads were returned to the USA.
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Bob Landman
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Chris,
I agree with you. That was the way I read the RoHS law so I
didn't rush and buy a large inventory of them.
Nevertheless, one fine day my buyer was told that production of
analog CRTs had ceased and there was no stock anywhere.
And no replacement (we use a 9" monitor). It was around the
time of the new EU laws - a coincidence?
I have since learned that back in October 2001, the United
States Environmental Protection Agency
created rules stating that CRTs must be brought to special
recycling facilities. In November 2002,
the EPA began fining companies that disposed of CRTs through
landfills or incineration. Regulatory agencies,
local and statewide, monitor the disposal of CRTs and other
computer equipment.
In Europe, disposal of CRT televisions and monitors is covered
by the WEEE Directive.
This is the explanation from one supplier:
"In response to changing market conditions, Pelco will soon
deplete inventory for one our CRT monitors. Unfortunately, the unit can
no longer be obtained from our CRT Vendor. The continuing trend to LCD
monitors combined with the overall decline of CRT technology
necessitates this move. We will do everything we can to fill all orders,
however, with CRT product availability becoming more sporadic, your
understanding is appreciated."
That's all I know.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:02 PM
To: (Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum); Bob Landman
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances proposed
for REACH control
Bob - lead in crt's is exempt so not the reason for your tube
being discontinued.
Regards,
Chris
+44 7779 854829
(Sent from iPod-Touch)
On 14 Mar 2010, at 21:47, "Bob Landman"
<[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Thanks, Chris, for your thoughful comments and your efforts on
your
> side of the Atlantic to make the regs more rational and
prudent.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't trade groups thus far
(IPC,
> IEEE,SEMI, iNEMI, etc...) not been very successful in turning
back a
> tsunami of new harsher regulations?
>
> What started out as a desire to harmonize VDE, DIN, etc...
became new
> tougher standards that applied much more broadly. Whereas
before they
> were RFI/EMI, electrical safety standards, they became
draconian
> environmental standards.
>
> I think that happened, in no small part, because the trade
groups
> evolvec to be international in nature. Isnt it true that they
did not
> present a strong opposition to many EU regulations?
>
> Wasn't IPC unwilling to oppose the lead ban? What trade group
today
> is willing to stand up to the EU and say "enough!" ??
>
> Small businesses like mine are not represented well by
international
> trade groups.
>
> As an example, take the IEEE. In standards making, there is
no limit
> to how many members of a company can vote. SEMI is the only
> organization I know of that has a one person rule. I was
formerly the
> siicon wafer committee chairperson and was pleasantly
surprised at the
> concern for small business. I think it is because Silicon
Valley is
> the birthplace of so much entrepreneurship. Even today, small
> businesses like mine play a substantial role in the
semiconductor
> manufacturing equipment industry.
>
> Let me give you one example of what EU regs have done to my
business
> (I'm sure others have similar stories to tell but not many
will say).
> Since 1985 we used a monochrome high resolution 9" CCTV
monitor for
> one of our products. Without ANY warning so we could stock up
and plan
> for a replacement, production by all manufacturers ceased. The
> manufacturers offered NO suitable replacement. Why did this
happen?
> RoHS. The lead in the faceplate of the CRT was banned
> by the EU. It didn't matter that there was no replacement.
> Companies like Philips and Siemens simply ceased to make them
and they
> offered no LCD replacement. What are we to do to service
those
> instruments customers have? What about new sales?
>
> Does anyone care? Apparently not.
>
> We have some inventory on hand but when that is gone, what
then?
> Millions of these CRTs are used in all manner of priducts,
from
> security monitors at airports to ultrasound medical systems.
>
> No repairs are possible. Junk the products when the displays
wear
> out?
>
> This is good for the environment?
>
> All that needed to be done was to enforce environmentally
prudent
> recycling. The same holds true for the lead ban in solder and
tin
> plating.
>
> The lead ban will cost Toyota more than $16B if, as I and
others
> expect, it turns out that tin whiskers are causing sudden
> acceleration. All APP (accelerator pedal assemblies) and ECM
> (electronic control modules) would have to be recalled from
every
> vehicle produced since 2002-2003.
>
> Never in the 50+ years I have been in the electronics
industry, having
> worked at DuPont, Tektronix, LKB Instruments, Kevex and HP
prior to
> starting my company in 1979, has a regulation had such a
deletorious
> result.
>
> It's time we engineers stood up and said we have had far too
many
> politically inspired junk science regulations.
>
> No more are needed; many need to be scaled back.
>
> If there's a trade group who agrees with me, and makes it
their goal,
> I'll be pleased to be a dues paying member!
>
> Bob Landman
> Life Senior Member, IEEE
> President, CTO
> H&L Instruments, LLC
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 12, 2010, at 2:33 AM, "Chris Robertson"
> <[log in to unmask]
> > wrote:
>
>> Dear Bob
>>
>> Leaving aside all other matters and to put the record
straight from
>> my experience.
>>
>> - ERA carried out the RoHS category 8/9 study for the
European
>> Commission in 2006 (see
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/pdf/
>> era_study_final_report.pdf).
>> Annex 1 lists the contributors to the review - organisations
we spoke
>> to. Many are outside the EU or multinationals, particularly
from the
>> US.
>>
>> - We are currently involved in 3 ecodesign preparatory
studies (see
>> www.eco-furnace.org and www.ecocooking.org). We have been
instructed
>> (not just encouraged) by the Commission to consult as widely
as
>> possible worldwide. Reference to previous studies and
ensuing
>> regulation shows that much of this is built on non EU best
practice -
>> standards, Energy Star etc. Much of this comes from the US.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting there are not problems (I would sympathise
with
>> many of your points) but just for this issue my own
experience is
>> that nowadays substantive evidence presented in a timely
fashion
>> (e.g.
>> through stakeholder consultations) can shape policy. So it is
>> important to engage. Trade associations have a key role
here.
>>
>> I hope this is of some encouragement.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Chris
>> Tel: +44 (0)1372 36 7204
>> <><
>> www.era.co.uk/rfa
>> Environmental product compliance conference 17/18 Nov >>
>> www.era.co.uk/conference2010/.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bob
Landman
>> Sent: 11 March 2010 17:53
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances
proposed for
>> REACH control
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Thanks for the note. Alas, it doesn't seem that they do
consult
>> outside the EU. I could find nothing that indicates they
seek input
>> from the USA or that when they do solicit comments, they pay
any
>> attention to them if they are not from EU member states.
>>
>> It also seems that the EU regs are focussed on high volume
commercial
>> products without the slightest bit of concern for what they
are doing
>> to aerospace, military, industrial, medical, broadcasting,
etc...
>> Where is
>> the concern for high rel desired long lifetime products that
need to
>> be constructed with chemicals and elements (e.g. lead) ?
>>
>> Worse, they don't seem to at all understand what they are
doing to
>> small businesses. I recall that once upon a time Dolby was
one of
>> those small businesses. Would there be a Dolby today, were it
to be
>> started in 2010?
>> I doubt it. The EU seems to churn out regulation assuming we
are all
>> like Siemens and thus can bear the burden of all the bloody
>> paperwork.
>> That's utter nonsense.
>>
>> It is a fact that small businesses (most are in the USA as
that is
>> where entrepreneurship is king) are where new products come
from.
>>
>> Not all small businesses are started by venture capital
(those that
>> are are commercially oriented and can afford the paperwork
>> employees).
>>
>> Hence, innovation that our 21st century needs is being
stifled by the
>> increased amount of draconian labor intensive mind boggling
>> regulations heaped upon us by the legions of EU bureaucrats.
What's
>> worse, they are then emulated by countries like China who use
it as a
>> trade barrier!
>>
>> Bob Landman
>> H&L Instruments, LLC
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James,
Chris
>> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:52 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances
proposed for
>> REACH control
>>
>> One for you here Bob............... :)
>>
>>
http://www.wired-gov.net/wg/wg-wlabel-dti.nsf/wfArticle?ReadForm&unid
>> =E2
>> 41B7919C8E0D29802576E30051AED2
>>
>> whether they consult outside the EU is another
matter...........
>>
>>
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