Robin,
Thanks SO much for this information as we have several monitors that need repair. In years to come we will have more as over time the brightness decreases and the CRT needs to be replaced. We modify the monitors for our needs and they are fitted into a custom cabinet.
We began using RCA back in 1985. They sold to Burle who then quit the business at the time CEMark was required. So we looked for a new supplier and, no surprise, the only vendor was Philips in Holland. When we asked for the construction file ( a CE requirement for us, I was given to understand, they refused, as did every vendor who CEMarked). Another confusing EU reg.
Then Philips quit production, selling the business to Siemens. With each each new vendor, the case dimensions changed so the custom enclosure had to be redesigned.
I just Googled for B/W 9" analog monitors again and saw that Pelco is trying to fill backorders. My buyer is now trying to get some of them.
I see that there is now a company in China making a 10.4" LCD analog monitor so I'm going to see if we can use it. Close enough to 9" (we hope).
Why go to all this trouble? We've been making our product since 1985 and our customers expect us to keep them working. We have had a 20 year life with our products with just an occasional repair for wear and tear. Until all fhese new regulations came out, we could do that with ease.
I'm sure I'm not the only industrial instrument supplier who's having to deal with these issues.
Joe Fjelstad has pointed out in his article, reliability does matter http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_67238.shtml
He's got it exactly right and it's damned frustrating for companies like mine to no longer be assured we can provide long lasting products for as Joe said:
"The reliability of those products was for many years, unquestioned and was the cornerstone of the industry's success. However, over the last decade or so, the electronics industry has been slowly sliding off its once sturdy foundation as evidence builds that newer generations of products are proving less reliable than the ones that preceded them."
"For those readers not old enough to remember it, there once was a time when electronic products were designed and expected to last for as long as 20 to 25 years and hopefully more. It is more than a little bit evident that consumer choice and expectations have undergone some significant changes in recent times."
"Where in the past, a product was designed for function and reliability, emphasis has shifted more towards trendiness and fashion relative to electronic products with myriad features that often go unused. Unfortunately, those are treated in the same cavalier manner as clothing fashions, good for this season but not the next."
"The electronics industry has even adopted terminology which reflects this with terms like "application specific reliability" now part of the electronics industry lexicon."
"The roots of this disturbing trend actually run deep back in time, more than 75 years to the Great Depression. The concept of planned obsolescence was the forerunner of what we see in operation today."
Amen Joe, amen.
Bob Landman
H&L Instruments, LLC
________________________________
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robin Ingenthron
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:02 PM
To: Bob Landman
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances proposed for REACH control
Bob, on CRTs there is good news and bad news.
The good news: The 9" CRTs are still being refurbished by companies like VideoDisplay Corp of Tucker GA USA, and several other factories in Indonesia, Malaysia, and China <http://retroworks.blogspot.com/2010/03/indonesia-crt-recycling-factory.html> . When a rare size like 9" is discontinued but still in demand, it makes it less expensive to collect it for recycling.
The bad news: Environmentalists are protesting the CRT refurbishing factories, <http://retroworks.blogspot.com/2010/03/basel-action-networks-legacy-poverty.html> major mis-understood story in Boston Globe last week, an enviro group BAN.org reported CRTs shipped to one of these factories as "hazardous waste" and 9 containerloads were returned to the USA.
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Chris,
I agree with you. That was the way I read the RoHS law so I didn't rush and buy a large inventory of them.
Nevertheless, one fine day my buyer was told that production of analog CRTs had ceased and there was no stock anywhere.
And no replacement (we use a 9" monitor). It was around the time of the new EU laws - a coincidence?
I have since learned that back in October 2001, the United States Environmental Protection Agency
created rules stating that CRTs must be brought to special recycling facilities. In November 2002,
the EPA began fining companies that disposed of CRTs through landfills or incineration. Regulatory agencies,
local and statewide, monitor the disposal of CRTs and other computer equipment.
In Europe, disposal of CRT televisions and monitors is covered by the WEEE Directive.
This is the explanation from one supplier:
"In response to changing market conditions, Pelco will soon deplete inventory for one our CRT monitors. Unfortunately, the unit can no longer be obtained from our CRT Vendor. The continuing trend to LCD monitors combined with the overall decline of CRT technology necessitates this move. We will do everything we can to fill all orders, however, with CRT product availability becoming more sporadic, your understanding is appreciated."
That's all I know.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:02 PM
To: (Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum); Bob Landman
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances proposed for REACH control
Bob - lead in crt's is exempt so not the reason for your tube being discontinued.
Regards,
Chris
+44 7779 854829
(Sent from iPod-Touch)
On 14 Mar 2010, at 21:47, "Bob Landman" <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Thanks, Chris, for your thoughful comments and your efforts on your
> side of the Atlantic to make the regs more rational and prudent.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't trade groups thus far (IPC,
> IEEE,SEMI, iNEMI, etc...) not been very successful in turning back a
> tsunami of new harsher regulations?
>
> What started out as a desire to harmonize VDE, DIN, etc... became new
> tougher standards that applied much more broadly. Whereas before they
> were RFI/EMI, electrical safety standards, they became draconian
> environmental standards.
>
> I think that happened, in no small part, because the trade groups
> evolvec to be international in nature. Isnt it true that they did not
> present a strong opposition to many EU regulations?
>
> Wasn't IPC unwilling to oppose the lead ban? What trade group today
> is willing to stand up to the EU and say "enough!" ??
>
> Small businesses like mine are not represented well by international
> trade groups.
>
> As an example, take the IEEE. In standards making, there is no limit
> to how many members of a company can vote. SEMI is the only
> organization I know of that has a one person rule. I was formerly the
> siicon wafer committee chairperson and was pleasantly surprised at the
> concern for small business. I think it is because Silicon Valley is
> the birthplace of so much entrepreneurship. Even today, small
> businesses like mine play a substantial role in the semiconductor
> manufacturing equipment industry.
>
> Let me give you one example of what EU regs have done to my business
> (I'm sure others have similar stories to tell but not many will say).
> Since 1985 we used a monochrome high resolution 9" CCTV monitor for
> one of our products. Without ANY warning so we could stock up and plan
> for a replacement, production by all manufacturers ceased. The
> manufacturers offered NO suitable replacement. Why did this happen?
> RoHS. The lead in the faceplate of the CRT was banned
> by the EU. It didn't matter that there was no replacement.
> Companies like Philips and Siemens simply ceased to make them and they
> offered no LCD replacement. What are we to do to service those
> instruments customers have? What about new sales?
>
> Does anyone care? Apparently not.
>
> We have some inventory on hand but when that is gone, what then?
> Millions of these CRTs are used in all manner of priducts, from
> security monitors at airports to ultrasound medical systems.
>
> No repairs are possible. Junk the products when the displays wear
> out?
>
> This is good for the environment?
>
> All that needed to be done was to enforce environmentally prudent
> recycling. The same holds true for the lead ban in solder and tin
> plating.
>
> The lead ban will cost Toyota more than $16B if, as I and others
> expect, it turns out that tin whiskers are causing sudden
> acceleration. All APP (accelerator pedal assemblies) and ECM
> (electronic control modules) would have to be recalled from every
> vehicle produced since 2002-2003.
>
> Never in the 50+ years I have been in the electronics industry, having
> worked at DuPont, Tektronix, LKB Instruments, Kevex and HP prior to
> starting my company in 1979, has a regulation had such a deletorious
> result.
>
> It's time we engineers stood up and said we have had far too many
> politically inspired junk science regulations.
>
> No more are needed; many need to be scaled back.
>
> If there's a trade group who agrees with me, and makes it their goal,
> I'll be pleased to be a dues paying member!
>
> Bob Landman
> Life Senior Member, IEEE
> President, CTO
> H&L Instruments, LLC
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 12, 2010, at 2:33 AM, "Chris Robertson"
> <[log in to unmask]
> > wrote:
>
>> Dear Bob
>>
>> Leaving aside all other matters and to put the record straight from
>> my experience.
>>
>> - ERA carried out the RoHS category 8/9 study for the European
>> Commission in 2006 (see http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/pdf/
>> era_study_final_report.pdf).
>> Annex 1 lists the contributors to the review - organisations we spoke
>> to. Many are outside the EU or multinationals, particularly from the
>> US.
>>
>> - We are currently involved in 3 ecodesign preparatory studies (see
>> www.eco-furnace.org and www.ecocooking.org). We have been instructed
>> (not just encouraged) by the Commission to consult as widely as
>> possible worldwide. Reference to previous studies and ensuing
>> regulation shows that much of this is built on non EU best practice -
>> standards, Energy Star etc. Much of this comes from the US.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting there are not problems (I would sympathise with
>> many of your points) but just for this issue my own experience is
>> that nowadays substantive evidence presented in a timely fashion
>> (e.g.
>> through stakeholder consultations) can shape policy. So it is
>> important to engage. Trade associations have a key role here.
>>
>> I hope this is of some encouragement.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Chris
>> Tel: +44 (0)1372 36 7204
>> <><
>> www.era.co.uk/rfa
>> Environmental product compliance conference 17/18 Nov >>
>> www.era.co.uk/conference2010/.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bob Landman
>> Sent: 11 March 2010 17:53
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances proposed for
>> REACH control
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Thanks for the note. Alas, it doesn't seem that they do consult
>> outside the EU. I could find nothing that indicates they seek input
>> from the USA or that when they do solicit comments, they pay any
>> attention to them if they are not from EU member states.
>>
>> It also seems that the EU regs are focussed on high volume commercial
>> products without the slightest bit of concern for what they are doing
>> to aerospace, military, industrial, medical, broadcasting, etc...
>> Where is
>> the concern for high rel desired long lifetime products that need to
>> be constructed with chemicals and elements (e.g. lead) ?
>>
>> Worse, they don't seem to at all understand what they are doing to
>> small businesses. I recall that once upon a time Dolby was one of
>> those small businesses. Would there be a Dolby today, were it to be
>> started in 2010?
>> I doubt it. The EU seems to churn out regulation assuming we are all
>> like Siemens and thus can bear the burden of all the bloody
>> paperwork.
>> That's utter nonsense.
>>
>> It is a fact that small businesses (most are in the USA as that is
>> where entrepreneurship is king) are where new products come from.
>>
>> Not all small businesses are started by venture capital (those that
>> are are commercially oriented and can afford the paperwork
>> employees).
>>
>> Hence, innovation that our 21st century needs is being stifled by the
>> increased amount of draconian labor intensive mind boggling
>> regulations heaped upon us by the legions of EU bureaucrats. What's
>> worse, they are then emulated by countries like China who use it as a
>> trade barrier!
>>
>> Bob Landman
>> H&L Instruments, LLC
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James, Chris
>> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:52 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances proposed for
>> REACH control
>>
>> One for you here Bob............... :)
>>
>> http://www.wired-gov.net/wg/wg-wlabel-dti.nsf/wfArticle?ReadForm&unid
>> =E2
>> 41B7919C8E0D29802576E30051AED2
>>
>> whether they consult outside the EU is another matter...........
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> _
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
>> For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or
>> [log in to unmask]
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> _
>>
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV
>> 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
>> following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
>> To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks
>> send:
>> SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at:
>> http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site
>> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional
>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>> 847-615-7100
>> ext.2815
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> _
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
>> For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or
>> [log in to unmask]
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> _
>>
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV
>> 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
>> following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
>> To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks
>> send:
>> SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at:
>> http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site
>> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional
>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>> 847-615-7100
>> ext.2815
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>
>>
>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it ("E-mail") is intended
>> solely for the
>> addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
>> information.
>> If you are not the addressee(s), any disclosure, reproduction,
>> copying, distribution or other use of the E-mail is prohibited. If
>> you have received this E-mail in error, please delete it and notify
>> the sender immediately via our switchboard or return e-mail.
>>
>> Neither the company nor any individual sending this E-mail accepts
>> any liability in respect of the content (including errors and
>> omissions) and timeliness of the E-mail which arise as a result of
>> transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard copy
>> version.
>>
>> ERA Technology Ltd Registered in England Number 4044609 Registered
>> Office:
>> Brook Road, Wimborne, Dorset, U.K. BH21 2BJ .
>> This email was scanned by Postini, the leading provider in Managed
>> Email Security. For more information visit www.groveis.com
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or
> [log in to unmask]
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To
> unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree To temporarily
> stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks
> send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
> Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please
> visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
> for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
> [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Robin Ingenthron
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
