LEADFREE Archives

March 2010

Leadfree@IPC.ORG

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Reply To:
(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)
Date:
Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:13:43 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (286 lines)
Unfortunately sensationalism trumps science far too often in the world  of 
legislation. Couple that with the fact that fear and greed can be  amazingly 
powerful allies when they conspire to effect change and  suddenly you find 
yourself in wonderland where logic and reason evaporate  into the ether.   
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 3/12/2010 8:02:02 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

Chris:

I actively engaged EU personnel during and after RoHS  development.  As a
testing and standards development professional, I  was very concerned at the
lack of appropriate test methodology and also  warned about the potential
cost to industry as a whole and disproportionate  impact on small companies.
But much of what I presented went unheeded,  including factual information
concerning the appropriate manner of testing  RoHS substances in materials
(as opposed to applying inappropriate EPA  tests developed for testing air,
soil and water).  

When  confronting one EU "expert" at an NIST conference on RoHS, I explained
that  the standard units used in determination of hexavalent  chromium
concentration in conversion coatings are mass per unit area - and  the
appropriate international standard for testing was ISO 3613. I  also
explained that because those coatings are typically less than 500  
nanometers
in thickness, determination of hexavalent coating in mass/mass  units is not
feasible since physical separation of the coating from the  substrate is not
feasible and also because the old standard  "weigh-strip-weigh" method would
be so wildly inaccurate that it is  impractical at best (the coatings are so
minute that measuring such small  mass coatings in relation to typically 
much
more massive substrates is not  at all accurate).  

I presented strong technical and  experience-based arguments for measuring
hexavalent chromium in conversion  coatings in units of mass per unit area; 
I
referenced an already existing  international standard for measuring in 
units
of mass per unit area; and I  presented arguments as to why it is
inappropriate to measure hexavalent  chromium in conversion coatings in 
units
of mass/mass.  The response  from the EU "expert" was "We didn't know".  I
presented the same  information to Dr. Goodman and other members of the TAC,
to no avail. I  wrote to EU government members; again, to no avail.  The 
fact
is that  I am correct and the EU incorrectly set a limit for hexavalent
chromium at  0.1% by weight while dismissing all that was brought to bear on
the subject  of conversion coatings. The only honest answer I ever received
as to why  the EU refused to correct such an obvious error was that it would
be too  difficult to amend the RoHS Directive.

My experience is that while the  EU may pay lip service to ideas of
consensus, international  standardization, they pretend to care about the
costs of their legislative  agendas and impact on small business.  Technical
experts are met with  dismissive attitudes if their sound technical
information does not jive  with what has already been laid down in
legislation.  I'm not saying  that it's any better in the U.S., because it
isn't - but the EU is just as  guilty of ignoring sound science as the U.S. 


-----Original  Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris  Robertson
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:33 AM
To:  [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new substances  proposed for REACH
control

Dear Bob 

Leaving aside all other  matters and to put the record straight from my
experience.

- ERA  carried out the RoHS category 8/9 study for the European
Commission in 2006  (see
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/pdf/era_study_final_report.pdf).
Annex  1 lists the contributors to the review - organisations we spoke
to.   Many are outside the EU or multinationals, particularly from  the
US.

- We are currently involved in 3 ecodesign preparatory  studies (see
www.eco-furnace.org and www.ecocooking.org).  We have  been instructed
(not just encouraged) by the Commission to consult as  widely as possible
worldwide.  Reference to previous studies and  ensuing regulation shows
that much of this is built on non EU best practice  - standards, Energy
Star etc.  Much of this comes from the  US.

I'm not suggesting there are not problems (I would sympathise with  many
of your points) but just for this issue my own experience is  that
nowadays substantive evidence presented in a timely fashion  (e.g.
through stakeholder consultations) can shape policy. So it is  important
to engage.  Trade associations have a key role  here.

I hope this is of some encouragement.

Best  regards

Chris 
Tel: +44 (0)1372 36  7204
<><
www.era.co.uk/rfa
Environmental product compliance  conference 17/18 Nov >>
www.era.co.uk/conference2010/.  


-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree  [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bob Landman
Sent: 11 March 2010  17:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More importantly.... 8 new  substances proposed for
REACH control

Chris,

Thanks for the  note.  Alas, it doesn't seem that they do consult outside
the  EU.  I could find nothing that indicates they seek input from the
USA  or that when they do solicit comments, they pay any attention to
them if  they are not from EU member states.

It also seems that the EU regs are  focussed on high volume commercial
products without the slightest bit of  concern for what they are doing to
aerospace, military, industrial,  medical, broadcasting, etc... Where is
the concern for high rel desired  long lifetime products that need to be
constructed with chemicals and  elements (e.g. lead) ?

Worse, they don't seem to at all understand what  they are doing to small
businesses.  I recall that once upon a time  Dolby was one of those small
businesses. Would there be a Dolby today, were  it to be started in 2010?
I doubt it.  The EU seems to churn out  regulation assuming we are all
like Siemens and thus can bear the burden of  all the bloody paperwork.
That's utter nonsense.

It is a fact that  small businesses (most are in the USA as that is where
entrepreneurship is  king) are where new products come from.  

Not all small businesses  are started by venture capital (those that are
are commercially oriented  and can afford the paperwork employees).

Hence, innovation that our  21st century needs is being stifled by the
increased amount of draconian  labor intensive mind boggling regulations
heaped upon us by the legions of  EU bureaucrats.  What's worse, they are
then emulated by countries  like China who use it as a trade barrier!

Bob Landman
H&L  Instruments, LLC


-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree  [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James, Chris
Sent: Thursday, March  11, 2010 10:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] More  importantly.... 8 new substances proposed for
REACH control

One for  you here Bob...............  :)

http://www.wired-gov.net/wg/wg-wlabel-dti.nsf/wfArticle?ReadForm&unid=E2
41B7919C8E0D29802576E30051AED2

whether  they consult outside the EU is another  matter...........

______________________________________________________________________
This  email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more  information please contact helpdesk at x2960  or
[log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------Leadfee  Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d To unsubscribe,  send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in the BODY (NOT the  subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree To
temporarily stop/(start) delivery of  Leadree for vacation breaks send:
SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search  previous postings at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web  site
http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for  additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or  847-615-7100
ext.2815
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------



______________________________________________________________________
This  email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more  information please contact helpdesk at x2960  or
[log in to unmask]
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------Leadfee  Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d To unsubscribe,  send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in the BODY (NOT the  subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree To
temporarily stop/(start) delivery of  Leadree for vacation breaks send:
SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search  previous postings at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web  site
http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for  additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or  847-615-7100
ext.2815
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------


This  e-mail and any files transmitted with it ("E-mail") is intended solely
for  the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or legally  privileged
information. 
If you are not the addressee(s), any  disclosure, reproduction, copying,
distribution
or other use of the  E-mail is prohibited. If you have received this E-mail
in error,
please  delete it and notify the sender immediately via our switchboard or
return  e-mail.

Neither the company nor any individual sending this E-mail  accepts any
liability
in respect of the content (including errors and  omissions) and timeliness 
of
the E-mail
which arise as a result of  transmission. If verification is required, 
please
request
a hard copy  version.

ERA Technology Ltd Registered in England Number 4044609  Registered Office:
Brook Road, Wimborne, Dorset, U.K. BH21 2BJ .
This  email was scanned by Postini, the leading provider in Managed  Email
Security.  For more information  visit
www.groveis.com



______________________________________________________________________
This  email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more  information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]  
______________________________________________________________________

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Leadfee  Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe,  send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the  subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of  Leadree for vacation breaks send:
SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
Search  previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web  site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional  information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-615-7100  ext.2815
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---



______________________________________________________________________
This  email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more  information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask]  
______________________________________________________________________

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Leadfee  Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe,  send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the  subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of  Leadree for vacation breaks send: 
SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
Search  previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web  site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 
for additional  information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 
847-615-7100  ext.2815
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please contact helpdesk at x2960 or [log in to unmask] 
______________________________________________________________________

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATOM RSS1 RSS2