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February 2010

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From:
"Thayer, Wayne - IIW" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Thayer, Wayne - IIW
Date:
Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:46:35 -0500
Content-Type:
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text/plain (581 lines)
Glad to hear you won't be dropping out.  I certainly find your comments valuable.

I think your misshapen balls are likely to be "process indicator", not real reliability concern--especially if you underfill, but even without.  Ideally, we want tight control over the shape of our balls!

Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hernefjord Ingemar
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?

Thank you, Werner,

The mis shaped balls are not specifically close to the corners. IF they were, why only one single among dozens?
Seem to be stretched rather than collapsed. So, there is no std telling about the ball's shape?
Will not come to FaR, but possibly my successor, a woman you'd like...or like...
I've in principle already left, but can't stop so abruptly, need go with reduced speed for a while before taking the step to the 'freedom'.
In opposition to many, I've never been longing for that life, and I will probably not be the typical freed sort. If I'm blessed with good
health, I'll be busy from 7 to 7 with all kind of activities. Will not drop TN either, not for a loong time...

Inge



________________________________
From: Werner Engelmaier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: tisdag 16 februari 2010 15:21
To: [log in to unmask]; Hernefjord Ingemar
Subject: Re: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?

Hi Inge,
You did not give us the location of these 'deformed' balls. If they are at the BGA corners or under the corner of the die they may have an impact.
Are they more collapsed or more stretched?
In terms of reliability, solder joint height is the critical geometric parameter. Any stress concentration geometry, and all these balls have them to some degree, is about a factor of 2 influence.
Will you come to the IPC Reliability Conference in Frankfurt in May? Maybe we can talk about it there.
Werner




-----Original Message-----
From: Hernefjord Ingemar <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 6:17 am
Subject: Re: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?


Hi all,



We buy ordinary Tin/Lead-balled BGAs from XILINX. Now, in the Xray inspection

after soldering, we can often see, that some out of 600 balls are not as sround

as aspected to be. Instead, some balls are deformed. Not much, but enough to

start questions whether such balls are accepted or not. Have not seen anything

about roundness requirements in any norm. A deformed ball can tell you about

possible electrical issues or about lowering the mechanical fatigue life. On the

other hand, irregular ball shape may mean nothing. If the electrical connection

is free from failure, one may neglect  the unshape.



The boards are VP soldered. Have any idea if VP is part of our problem?



A typical example is a multilayer board, size about 8x10 inches, populated with

five BGA560s. The total of 'deformed' balls numbers some ten pcs. We have had

discussions for weeks without coming to a decision if such balls are okay or

not. There are no indications of electrical issues (yet.



What is your opinion?



/Inge







-----Original Message-----

From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Werner Engelmaier

Sent: tisdag 16 februari 2010 01:51

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?



 Thanks Bob,

Didn't know about 2 great suppliers left.

Werner

















-----Original Message-----

From: Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:37 pm

Subject: Re: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?





Hi Werner,



Well, Lattice Semiconductor (bless them!) still offers Pb/Sn balls on BGAs and

PLDs and so does Analog Devices (bless them too!).

Others may be more problematic hence we prefer Lattice products for their

features and their support.  They are ideal for small companies like ours. Their

design tools are very affordable compared to others.  Every year their tools get

better.



Bob Landman

H&L Instruments, LLC



-----Original Message-----

From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Werner Engelmaier

Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:18 PM

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?



 Hi Joyce,

where have u been--sure (3) is ideal, but where do you get the components from?

Werner



















-----Original Message-----

From: Joyce Koo <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 6:30 pm

Subject: Re: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?





(3) And (1). But not the other. (3) required nothing to be done on the assembly

level.  All the rel data are valid.  (1) may need reduced rel qual.  The others,

as material change, most of the mil or hi rel house need full qual (shake, drop

all the nine yard).  It would cost around 30 to 50k plus risk budget (depend

upon how complicated is your assembly) and 3 month delay.  At least it use to

be. My ancient 1.8 cents.

--------------------------

Sent using BlackBerry





----- Original Message -----

From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

Sent: Mon Feb 15 17:49:57 2010

Subject: [TN] Pre-Tinned BGA?



Hello All,

 I had a question to see if anyone has tried anything different. Most of our

customers are some how related to the military. So we have one product that the

customer just found out was a PB-Free device. They want us to "pre-tin" the

spheres. Now I have tried several process for forward and backward processes.

None of them include re-tinning of a BGA Device. We do re-tin other leaded and

some non leaded devices. So below are the three options I have recommended but

still have reliability concerns as the end product is to be coated with

Paralyne.

1. Re- Ball to PB/SN

2. Sue a selective rework machine and place pate with isolated heat if the

substraight could handle.

3. Purchase the component in PB/SN material 4. Reflow the product with slightly

higher temps (5c per 10 zones) once out of over and cold to room temp underfil

the device.



Again if anyone has any more ideas I am game!!





Carl Ray

Lewisburg TN 37091



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